"Septarian coral"? From Morocco

[GeschWhat]

I've been doing a little web research and I wonder if it is a Calceola sp.  that is ground down and polished. I found one image that looked like it may be something similar HERE. I wonder if the the paleo I talked with referred to it as a fan coral because they had a lid (operculum) that fanned open. This blog site had some interesting images HERE. Just a thought.  

[doushantuo]

Besides the obvious Galle and Gudo,there's e.g.this: 

 

wrightcalceolcoralanthozmemoiruafulltext.pdf

[supertramp]

ciao sndl, ciao a tutti;

...it would be a really strange mechanism for a coral to grow…

 

 

I don’t know what kind of coral the paleontologist you talked with was referring to, but these pieces definitely do not seem to be corals or fossils at all;

here’s what comes out googling “septaria morocco”

https://www.google.it/search?q=septaria+marocco&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=685&site=webhp&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjtyofioLLQAhVGrxoKHRioCiwQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=oAL3HmPKAGk1vM%3A

 

ciao

[doushantuo]

think it's just bad command of the english language.Seller obviously thinking these were septa of a coral,hence "septarian coral" 

[sdsnl]

7 hours ago, GeschWhat said:

I've been doing a little web research and I wonder if it is a Calceola sp.  that is ground down and polished. I found one image that looked like it may be something similar HERE. I wonder if the the paleo I talked with referred to it as a fan coral because they had a lid (operculum) that fanned open. This blog site had some interesting images HERE. Just a thought.  

That is interesting, I didn't know corals could have opercula!

I guess I could kind of see it being something like Calceola sp., but I cannot believe they are not pairs, they match so much!

[sdsnl]

1 hour ago, doushantuo said:

think it's just bad command of the english language.Seller obviously thinking these were septa of a coral,hence "septarian coral" 

Do you think the mineral is not septarian at all?

[doushantuo]

no,i don't think it's a coral.

Nothing in favour of that attribution

[tmaier]

Looks very mineral/geological to me.

[supertramp]

here's another image...not so rare, after all

 

https://www.google.it/search?q=morocco+septaria&rlz=1C1AOHY_itIT708IT708&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=685&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj1_dvY7rLQAhXFzRoKHQZtDjEQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=-DnBPw1GpoeTxM%3A

 

ciao

 

 

[ynot]

I have to agree with a mineral. Do not see a coral or a septarian.

It is definitely a brain twister.

Tony

[GeschWhat]

On 11/18/2016 at 7:40 AM, sdsnl said:

That is interesting, I didn't know corals could have opercula!

I guess I could kind of see it being something like Calceola sp., but I cannot believe they are not pairs, they match so much!

I hear you...plus, they were selling them at the Tucson Gem Show as "pairs," but they were just loose in the flats like in the photo @supertramp showed in his link. If I remember right, they had flats of a little bit larger ones as well. However, the ones I saw were much more uniform (like the ones shown here) than those in supertramps link.

 

On 11/18/2016 at 6:06 AM, supertramp said:

ciao sndl, ciao a tutti;

...it would be a really strange mechanism for a coral to grow…

 

 

I don’t know what kind of coral the paleontologist you talked with was referring to, but these pieces definitely do not seem to be corals or fossils at all;

here’s what comes out googling “septaria morocco”

https://www.google.it/search?q=septaria+marocco&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=685&site=webhp&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjtyofioLLQAhVGrxoKHRioCiwQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=oAL3HmPKAGk1vM%3A

 

ciao

You could be right. I just shot him another email to see if he has or knows of any photos of the corals he was thinking of before they are polished. Seeing them in their natural state might help in determining whether or not they are fossils if nothing else.

[fifbrindacier]

I snail in to say what others didn't said and what nobody said as nobody didn't say what the others said or think they said what the others didn't think to say or not.

 

Do you follow me ?  

[fifbrindacier]

Hey @Auspex, why does this one is nor more in the emoticones list ? 

[ynot]

4 minutes ago, fifbrindacier said:

 

I snail in to say what others didn't said and what nobody said as nobody didn't say what the others said or think they said what the others didn't think to say or not.

 

I hear what was not said, so I said what was not heard but nobody would listen to what was not said, I am just saying. The others did not say what they did not hear.

[fifbrindacier]

4 minutes ago, ynot said:

I hear what was not said, so I said what was not heard but nobody would listen to what was not said, I am just saying. The others did not say what they did not hear.

Wonderful, i was sure it was useful for me to snail in. But, unfortunately, the snails don't have ears, so they do not hear what they say even if they could listen to what they see if, of course, they can see (understand) what is not said.

[ynot]

1 minute ago, fifbrindacier said:

Wonderful, i was sure it was useful for me to snail in. But, unfortunately, the snails don't have ears, so they do not hear what they say even if they could listen to what they see if, of course, they can see (understand) what is not said.

[sdsnl]

3 hours ago, fifbrindacier said:

Wonderful, i was sure it was useful for me to snail in. But, unfortunately, the snails don't have ears, so they do not hear what they say even if they could listen to what they see if, of course, they can see (understand) what is not said.

I had to look up snail anatomy, remembering that snails can react to sound. Turns out they don't have ears but can feel vibrations, so maybe they can hear what they say after all!

 

[sdsnl]

13 hours ago, GeschWhat said:

I hear you...plus, they were selling them at the Tucson Gem Show as "pairs," but they were just loose in the flats like in the photo @supertramp showed in his link. If I remember right, they had flats of a little bit larger ones as well. However, the ones I saw were much more uniform (like the ones shown here) than those in supertramps link.

 

You could be right. I just shot him another email to see if he has or knows of any photos of the corals he was thinking of before they are polished. Seeing them in their natural state might help in determining whether or not they are fossils if nothing else.

Maybe they are cut minerals, but there is a kind of coral that looks very similar to a cut half of the mineral?

[abyssunder]

I would say they are septarian nodules (as it was suspected way back in the topic), no doubt. Thanks supertramp for your search. I think the case is solved now.

 

 

 

 

[fifbrindacier]

So, septarian nodules, not a coral, the mystery is resolved. Nice ones.

[GeschWhat]

I heard back from the guy I spoke with that thought they were "fan corals." He didn't really give me much additional information other than to look up Devonian fan corals from Morocco. Not much help; however, he said he may have some natural specimens, and asked if I was interested in purchasing one. I told him yes. So, hopefully he will be able to find one in his collection. In my own mind (which, admittedly, is a scary place at times), I'm still not completely convinced that these do not have a biological origin. Maybe not coral, but something...there is just too much we don't know about Moroccan fossils. After seeing flats of these in person, they just seemed too uniform.  If this man does have one in its natural state and it looks to be the same, I will post photos. Then I will have it cut/polished in order see if the internal structure matches up.  It never hurts to try.

[GeschWhat]

@Tidgy's Dad do you know anything about these?

[Tidgy's Dad]

1 hour ago, GeschWhat said:

@Tidgy's Dad do you know anything about these?

Thanks for thinking of me, but I can't be of much help. 

The septarian nodules : 

They call them "Septarie" here if i recall correctly, or the French "ceptaria"  and there are thousands of them in shops all over the country and on stalls that sell fossils. They are very cheap to buy and not considered worth anything really. Often they are included in box sets of Moroccan fossils for sale to tourists. 

This isn't a very good one (not mine, from the web) , but I have a couple upstairs somewhere which are more like the google images. ( the labels in these boxes are often wrong) 

However, i am sorry to report that I have never seen anything like the ones posted here. i'm not saying they don't come from Morocco, but I've not seen them. 

Sandalina corals, yes, but nothing like this. 

Sorry.  

[KimTexan]

There was a set of these auctioned off at Fossilmania in Glen Rose last month. They were named Moroccan septarians too. They were rather curious and beautiful. I could see someone cutting them down and making cuff links out of them. They’d be quite nice looking.

 

Fossilmania is a Dallas Paleontological Society event held every year. In case someone asks.

[Shamalama]

On 11/22/2016 at 5:17 PM, GeschWhat said:

I heard back from the guy I spoke with that thought they were "fan corals." He didn't really give me much additional information other than to look up Devonian fan corals from Morocco. Not much help; however, he said he may have some natural specimens, and asked if I was interested in purchasing one. I told him yes. So, hopefully he will be able to find one in his collection. In my own mind (which, admittedly, is a scary place at times), I'm still not completely convinced that these do not have a biological origin. Maybe not coral, but something...there is just too much we don't know about Moroccan fossils. After seeing flats of these in person, they just seemed too uniform.  If this man does have one in its natural state and it looks to be the same, I will post photos. Then I will have it cut/polished in order see if the internal structure matches up.  It never hurts to try.

Did you ever get one in the natural state?