Is This Amber Perhaps?

[Cole]

My mother the other day was collecting shells on the beach and she found something that looked odd. I have never handled real Amber to know the difference, but this feels rather light, almost like a hard plastic or resin. While it seems light it still has a crystalized property to it that makes you feel like it would shatter if you slammed it into the concrete, unlike plastic or resin. If I were to guess I would say it is Amber. As far as transparency is concerned, because its rough its somewhat hard to see through, but the chipped parts are very clear.

I called the Delaware Geoligical Survey and they told me its rather unlikey to have an Amber find in Delaware. But, sure enough when I hold it up in the light there are inclussions. I took it to a jewler to look under a magnifying glass and she told me one of them is either a mosquito or small spider. There are only a few spots where it is chipped enough to see right into it, the rest is kind of hazey from rolling around in the ocean for I have no idea how long. Lastly there are some holes to note that you may or may not be able to see in the included pictures:

I also should note that I was forwarded to the Delaware Mineral Society & Museum at the University of Delaware. They have not replied back but I am curious if you guys think its worth sending to them to have them look at?

Thanks for the help,

Cole~

[Seldom]

Cole welcome to the forum from Galveston Texas.

I would say its amber you said its light for its size thats a good test I also use the hot ice pick test check this out might help

http://www.gplatt.demon.co.uk/identify.htm

Also find a rock and gem club close by they will be able to tell you.

And if it is amber head back to the beach and find some more.

Bobby

[Auspex]

If it is amber (and I see nothing to dissuade me from the thought), then it is a pretty big piece!

If it is confirmed to contain inclusions, then there is little else it could be. The question becomes one of it's source and age. I hope you can pursue the answers.

[Frank Menser]

Looks like it to me...

Keep us posted.

[Phoenixflood]

Well if you saw bugs I'd say it's amber. Looks like it to me! The way you described it as very light and heavier than it looks are very key. There are Cretaceous deposits in NJ, could be some unknown in Delaware.

I'd see it you can polish that up a bit. But be careful because it does shatter

[Cole]

Thank you for the quick replies. I am certain it has inclusions in the form of some type of bug. I can see the legs and body of at least one bug that seems to be in between larvae and mosquito stage. The rest of it is so hazy I cant tell for sure, but I can see other dark spots. I would pressume they are also bugs. I went ahead and circled two dark spots that were just inside a chip on one end of it. The arrow is pointing to what I am 99% sure is mosquito or perhaps spider. The other dark spot seems organic but I cant determine what it is.

As to the size, yes it is pretty big. It just larger then a golf ball except almost egg shaped. The weight is similar to a golf ball, and when I tap at it with my fingernail it sounds like one too.

I am about to go out surf fishing right now as we speak at the same place it was found. But hightide is in 3 hours, so I likely wont find much. I will follow up on this hot ice pick technique when I get back home with my mother. And if it pans out I will forwarded it on for further testing.

Another thing to mention, the guy from the Geological Survey told me this area was extremely hot at one point, and anything like this would have melted away. He said it would be extremely rare if it were Amber. But if this substance is so light, and it was found on the point where the Ocean meets the Bay in Cape Henlopen, then it very well could have washed up from anywhere right?

Thanks again for the advice.

Cole~

[Bill]

Hi Cole,

Can you get a closeup, (through a jewellers loupe, etc) of the circled object. It looks similar to this below, in copal. Which by the way, I have no id for.

[Cole]

I dont have a loupe for photography sorry. These pictures were taken with my cell phone. But on my way home tonight I will stop and get film for my Cannon T3 Rebel, and put a 10x zoom lens on top of it to see what I can get. It should give you a far better idea, but it may be until tomorrow that I get better pictures.

In the meantime I can tell you yes, the body of what I am seeing looks similar to that, it even has red in the body, but it has legs on it...two of them that I can see. Your picture almost looks like some sort of larvae. Thats why I thought perhaps this was just developing into a mosquito, because of the larvae appearence, with legs, no wings.

I will check back in a bit.

Cole~

[Auspex]

If the included insects retain colors (especially red), it may well be copal (young amber). In that case, it will not be fully polymerized, and may fail the hot-needle test. Still, it could be Pliocene/Pleistocene (which could help it's occurrence where it was found). In any case, it seems too pale to be Cretaceous amber.

[Guest N.AL.hunter]

I hope you did find Amber, but don't rule out man-made resin that someone has poured out. I have seen it look just like amber. There is some sort of mineral oil test you can do to see if it is amber. A Google search might tell you what that test is. Also, the good old hot needle test to make sure it isn't a plastic/resin of some sort.

[Cole]

Ok, back from fishing and I caught nothing. Beautiful day though.

Cole welcome to the forum from Galveston Texas.

I would say its amber you said its light for its size thats a good test I also use the hot ice pick test check this out might help

http://www.gplatt.demon.co.uk/identify.htm

Also find a rock and gem club close by they will be able to tell you.

And if it is amber head back to the beach and find some more.

Bobby

I got my coals burning on the grill getting ready to eat some dinner, but I decided to run 3 quick tests that were mentioned on that link you gave me. I cleaned it off and did the taste test. It tastes clean to me, no chemical residue taste at all. I then tried shaving it with a sharp knife. It crackled and splintred almost as soon as the knife went into it. I then did the hot needle test twice. The first time I instantly got a plume of smoke, but also a faint sweet smell. On the second attempt I got the same plume of smoke and the smell gave me a headache...like a rotten smell, possibly on the sweet side, but strong. It also seemed to melt like a plastic, but nowhere near as soft. The tip of the needle was red about 1cm, and the needle only went in about 1/16. It re-hardened almost instantly. When I pulled the needle out the melted area attached to the needle cracked almost like the specimen did when I cut it with the knife. Its very brittle material here. I will follow up with more pictures and test results when I get a chance, but for now I have to marinate my steaks.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Cole~

[fosceal2]

Here are more to do tests for amber-

Amber and copal will float in salt water, most plastics will sink.

Ethyl alcohol attacks many plastics, will create a cloudy surface on amber.

Pure Acetone dissolves many plastics, will cause copal to become sticky on the surface- will not dissolve amber at all.

Good Luck

Best Regards,

Fosceal

[Seldom]

I forgot about the saltwater test. Good one Have read about the acetone test but never used it. Fosceal have you would like to know what you think

[Cole]

Ok, I got the pictures, but I forgot to grab the Acetone while I was out. I will take care of that in the morning. Using the Cannon I was able to verify that there is indeed another bug beside the first one, its just set in a little deeper. The second bug seems to be in the shape of small bee, or possibly a flying ant. I can see a body, head and wings on it. Hear are much clearer images:

Acetone tests tomorrow.

Cole~

[fosceal2]

I forgot about the saltwater test. Good one Have read about the acetone test but never used it. Fosceal have you would like to know what you think

As a GG ( Graduate Gemologist) I can usually ID with other test as most items are faceted or polished jewelry. Clients are real funny about potentially destructive tests on Grandmas' jewelry! In one of my other personas' - the mad potter- I have been learning to make violin varnish ( hold on it ties in) as a step in attempting to make an oxidizing luster for pottery. ( Hanovia stopped making due to hish price of gold). ( Still ties in) So yes I have tried to dissolve amber, copal, frankincense,myrrh in Acetone. Truly Amber does not change in pure acetone. My Dear husband will not let me heat it up in the microwave -some worry about me blowing up the store!

I try to listen as the man has been right before!

Fosceal

[Cole]

Acetone test complete. Another crappy cell phone picture:

I took two small shards of the substance and placed them in a shot glass containing pure Acetone. The color seemed to disapear within a minute. The substance stayed in tact, but after draining the Acetone a few minutes later, I got a very sticky surface.

Conclussion, Copal...

...now that I know I have copal on my hands and not Amber, should I treat it differently when it comes to polishing it? How exactly should I go about polishing it to reveal its true beauty? What is it worth if anything? Is it possible for anyone here to give me a rough estimate on the age of Copal thats found along the eastern shore?

Thanks for everyones assistance through this, you guys have been great and really peaked my interest.

Cole~

[Auspex]

Did you try the "salt water sink test"?

Just to rule out that it isn't a man-made resin (an old can of urethane varnish that was left open, got bugs in it, dried out, and was discarded, for example). The bad odor from the hot-needle test makes me ask.

[Cole]

I just put 23gms regular table salt into 200mls luke warm water. Its definately floating:

I forgot to mention in this picture you can see the two small insertion points of the hot needle test pretty clearly. I guess it didnt go in too deep and left a pretty dark burned area:

[Auspex]

Well there ya' go; copal!

[fosceal2]

HMMMM the color of copal usually goes the whole way through the item, the last picture appears completely clear?

Fosceal

[Cole]

I have spent the day polishing it, as described by Gene Hartstein in a correspondence of his I found online regarding polishing Copal:

http://lists.drizzle.com/pipermail/rockhou...ary/010352.html

I think I posted that method. I've used it very successfully to polish New

Jersey Amber specimens where great care must be taken to do minimum damage.

1) Using progressivesly finer wet dry sandpaper, shape, smooth, then

prepolish the specimen. Use the paper wet. You can get a set of papers at Pep Boys or

any other major auto supply store. Look in the paint and finish section near

the bondo. I use 100, 280, 600, 1000, and 1500 grits rinsing well between

grades.

2) Now with a dry terrycloth towel or washcloth, use some toothpaste. A small

dab worked in semi dry and polish. Then buff with the end of the towel that

has no toothpaste on it. Then rinse thoroughly and dry. Try to find the

cheapest toothpaste you can without any peroxides in them. Basic Colgate or

something else works. Stay away from the clear gel types and stick with white. The

white toothpastes have a very fine grade of TiO2 pigment which acts as a great

polishing abrasive. You can find the same abrasive in the centers of Oreo

cookies but there it is blened out into a fat which is likely to harm your amber.

The toothpaste can be used to buff up hazy amber and silver jewelry as well.

Gene Hartstein

Newark, DE

I got to the end and what do you know, he just so happens to be from Delaware. So I found his email and sent him some pictures along with some questions, and he sent back a rather quick and descriptive reply. Here is what he had to say about it:

I would say the chances of finding amber or copal in Delaware are pretty slim. In the past I have found small bits of amber at the Chesapeake and Delaware Canal in Cretaceous deposits. Amber is locally abundant in some places in New Jersey, however such pockets are rarely exposed.

I have found fossil resin in Miocene deposits in various places including Puerto Rico. You can pretty much bet that if you search any land plant containing deposits that run from say the Eocene forward you are bound to find a piece of fossil resin sooner or later. I checked the maps because I didn't remember big stone beach... (south of Bethany.. right?). There are plenty of suitable clays etc. inland from there so the piece could certainly have come from those.

Is the piece rare? Yes. But probably not particularly valuable. Without finding it in-situ you can never be sure it wasn't dropped there by someone so the value based on locality will get you just so far.

If you start finding more there, let me know...

Good luck and be sure to keep it with a label of when and where you found it.

Gene

As far as to the last response, after cleaning it up and polishing it a bit I would say it is losing some of its Amber color but not completely. It seems some parts of it are darker, and some lighter. I am not really too sure why. I did research Copal and it seems it comes in white as well as amber shades, and it has some whitish areas to it. Also after polishing it I can say there are 2 other areas I suspect are bug inclusions I have yet to note, that are about the same size as the others but deeper into it. I can also see under the light lots of smaller peices which I think could also be bits of bugs or parasites.

Its a truley interesting peice I have here.

Cole~

[Auspex]

For comparison, this is my piece of Columbian copal (Santander region, Pleistocene).

The inclusions are: feather, springtail, beetle, thrips, lonf-legged fly.

You can easily see the color varigations and entrained air bubbles.

Front-lit:

Back-lit:

[Cole]

Thats a very beautiful specimen there of colombian copal...mine looks somewhat similar in regards to the color variations.

I had some further follow-ups via email with this Gene Hartstein guy, who seems extremely knowledgable about Delaware fossils. He is not so quick to dismiss it as being amber. He told me that Amber samples dating back to 65 million years found in New Jersey, will also soften quite rapidly in Acetone. He said the beach where it was found would make sense because there are formations of Miocene to Pleistocene age under the river.

I also found this page by the Delaware Geological Survery dating some of the fossil locations here in Delaware along the coast to around those same periods.

http://www.dgs.udel.edu/geology/paleontolo...ossilsites.aspx

And reading up on copal finds, I see their is some controversey over exact dates and ages of Copal formations. It seems many place them between 200 - 2000 years old.

Here is the kicker. When the canal was built north of this loaction, they found fossils from the Cretaceous Period dating to 144 to 65 million years old. When they build the highway near here they found Miocene fossils approximately 18 million years old. Fossils from the Miocene epoch, approximately 15 million years in age, have been found in the banks of the Coursey and Killen Ponds near Felton. These two ponds are less then 10 miles from where the fossil was picked up on the beach.

So I am really perplexed as to age, to say the very least.

Cole~

[ShadyW]

While we're on the fascinating subject of Amber...

The Amber Room

Have you all heard of the Amber Room that disappeared from the Catherine Palace near St Petersberg during the war?

..a complete chamber decoration of

amber

panels backed with

gold

leaf and

mirrors

. Due to its singular beauty, it was sometimes dubbed the "

Eighth Wonder of the World

".

Construction of the Amber Room began in 1701 to 1709 in

Prussia

.

...it covered more than 55 square meters and contained over six tons of amber.

[Iskandar]

I interest in any fossil and subfossil resin. Your copal is very interesting. See the picture of the Colombian Copal (approx. 250 years old), that's possibly will happen when its was polished by me. Amber and copal is only stage of maturation of resin. Sometime old resin which is up to 15 million years old still copal but some of the 9 million years old fossil resin from Lee Creek (Aurora) is mature enough to be called amber.