Crinoid or Vertebrae

[CraigHyatt]

You mean The Fossil Foraminifera? ;-) According to Wikipedia, the size is possible, but not likely. It says the shells are usually less than 1 mm (after all, they are single celled animals) but can be much larger. The other thing I wonder, not knowing anything about this, is whether their shells would be hollow. These discs aren't hollow, are they?

"Foraminifera typically produce a test, or shell, which can have either one or multiple chambers, some becoming quite elaborate in structure.[3] These shells are commonly made of calcium carbonate (CaCO3) or agglutinated sediment particles. Over 50,000 species are recognized, both living (10,000)[4] and fossil (40,000).[5][6] They are usually less than 1 mm in size, but some are much larger, the largest species reaching up to 20 cm.[7]" ~Wikipedia

[doushantuo]

Don't get me started on foraminifera Craig.

Holothurians are echinoderms,and their ossicles can have weird shapes

https://www.app.pan.pl/archive/published/app16/app16-429.pdf

And they're subject to diagenetic processes which might result in the morphology we are seeing.

Have I told anyone my middle name is longshot?

Edited August 16, 2016 by doushantuo

[doushantuo]

and BTW,everyone: foraminifera have been and for a long time will be the most heavily researched fossil group

[CraigHyatt]

Here's an interesting hit.

http://www.ryanphotographic.com/foraminifera.htm

[doushantuo]

offtopic this,but Google e.g. Baculogypsina

or read this

http://paleoitalia.org/media/u/archives/075_090_Hottinger.pdf

or:

http://www.hydra-institute.com/de/ifm/pdf/biosand/Carbonate%20Production%20ms%202008.pdf

Edited August 16, 2016 by doushantuo

[fifbrindacier]

Don't get me started on foraminifera Craig.

Holothurians are echinoderms,and their ossicles can have weird shapes

https://www.app.pan.pl/archive/published/app16/app16-429.pdf

And they're subject to diagenetic processes which might result in the morphology we are seeing.

Have I told anyone my middle name is longshot?

Here is a photo of one of my foraminifera fossil, it is 2 cm of width (i think it is about 1 inch) :

Edited August 17, 2016 by fifbrindacier

[ischua]

This email just in

"My interpretation is that these are crinoid columnals.

William I. Ausich

Professor Emeritus

University Distinguished Scholar

Director, Orton Geological Museum

[fifbrindacier]

So that's sure now, crinoids, and surely cupressocrinites. Nice !

[abyssunder]

" The cladid crinoid Cupressocrinites Goldfuss is a distinctive member of the Middle Devonian biota of SW England. These distinctive crinoids are easily identified to genus from incomplete specimens. They have characteristic columnals with tetragonal symmetry and peripheral canals; arm facets that extend the width of the radial plates; and uniserial, unbranched, triangular arms that are closely abutting. Although specimens from Devon are invariably incomplete, at least two species are recognizable from cups and arms. The specimens described by John Edward Lee (1808–1887) are redescribed with other material from the Natural History Museum, London. The four-fold symmetry of the column is unlikely to have persisted from a Late Ordovician ancestor. " - The cladid crinoid Cupressocrinites Goldfuss in the Devonian of SW England - Stephen K. Donovan

Edit : to post #40 - Those are anomalous crinoid cups of Cupressocrinitids, not columnals. Here is a closer view, excerpt from the remarkable work of Jan Bohatý - Pre and Postmortem Skeletal Modifications of the Cupressocrinitidae (Crinoidea, Cladida), freely available here :

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/240776380_Pre_and_Postmortem_Skeletal_Modifications_of_the_Cupressocrinitidae_Crinoidea_Cladida

Edited August 17, 2016 by abyssunder

[ischua]

I found more rocks in the parking lot at work so I can destroy some without worry. I even found a fist sizes chunk of coral looks like a honey comb.

Tonight's experiments on the matrix.

1 the vinegar (5%) did little I could see no foaming or bubbles.

2 sulfuric acid in water (50%) foamed at first now single bubbles.

How long should I soak them before I see something? Matrix is only soft on the outer surface farther in its gets hard.

[CraigHyatt]

This email just in

"My interpretation is that these are crinoid columnals.

William I. Ausich

Professor Emeritus

University Distinguished Scholar

Director, Orton Geological Museum

BAM!

[BobWill]

Thanks for the new plate abyssunder. You had me with 4 way bases, It makes sense they would be supported by square columns. We know the central hole is a body cavity. Are the other 4 just pits going part way through or are they holes?

[abyssunder]

As far as I know, Bob, the other four are peripheral canals.

Here is another example : " Crinoid columnal exhibiting the canal pattern of Cupressocrinites characterized by four peripheral canals separated from the central lumen. Cupressocrinites is a widely distributed genus known from the Late Emsian to the Early Frasnian (Ures et al. 1999). " - from Microfacies of carbonate rocks : analysis, interpretation and application - Erik Flügel

Just to add : Cupressocrinites gracilis (Goldfuss,1831) - " Species identified on the basis of delicate, tetragonal and rounded stems. Axial canal typically connected by narrow furrows with four peripheral canals. However, some specimens lack the radial connections and in these cases, five independent canals are present. " - Gluchowski, E. 1993. Crinoid assemblages in the Polish Givetian and Frasnian. Acta Palaeontologica Polonica 38, 1/2, 35-92.

Edited August 18, 2016 by abyssunder