Paleoworld-101 Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 These are some of the shark teeth i recently collected near Richmond in Central Queensland, Australia. They come from the marine Toolebuc Formation and are about 100 million years old. I have at least one probable taxa in mind for most of them but wanted to get some additional opinions from others on this forum as i know there are a lot of shark tooth enthusiasts on here! Tooth 1 This tooth is nicely positioned right next to a section of Ichthyosaur rib (Platypterygius australis). Tooth 2 Tooth 3 Tooth 4 The large rounded object next to this tooth is actually a coprolite! Tooth 5 More to come in the next post! "In Africa, one can't help becoming caught up in the spine-chilling excitement of the hunt. Perhaps, it has something to do with a memory of a time gone by, when we were the prey, and our nights were filled with darkness..." -Eternal Enemies: Lions And Hyenas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njfossilhunter Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Very nice shark teeth.... TonyThe Brooks Are Like A Box Of Chocolates,,,, You Never Know What You'll Find. I Told You I Don't Have Alzheimer's.....I Have Sometimers. Some Times I Remember And Some Times I Forget.... I Mostly Forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paleoworld-101 Posted September 9, 2016 Author Share Posted September 9, 2016 Tooth 6 Note the double lateral cusplets. Tooth 7 Tooth 8 Tooth 9 Thanks for looking! "In Africa, one can't help becoming caught up in the spine-chilling excitement of the hunt. Perhaps, it has something to do with a memory of a time gone by, when we were the prey, and our nights were filled with darkness..." -Eternal Enemies: Lions And Hyenas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Nice finds! I really like the ones in matrix. I would try to ID them but that seems to be a weak point in My knowledge. Tony Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike from North Queensland Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Nice Shark teeth - The one with the double cusplets is one I have not seen. So will be interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Hi Paeloworld-101! I've never found any shark teeth myself (the rock around my area is from the Upper Ordovician so lots of invertebrates but no sharks), but I was intrigued by your tooth with the double cusplets. When I did a little online research, I found a forum discussion from a few years ago when someone else had found one, too (although this particular forum member is from the U.S. and his find was from the Paleocene rather than the Cretaceous) - here is a link to that thread on TFF: The couple of people who responded said that the likely candidates were Odontaspis winkleri and Brachycarcharias lerichei, although the consensus was that Rockwood's tooth was from the former. When I looked up pictures for both of these species, I found some pictures of the latter that seemed to be a close match to your tooth. So perhaps you have a tooth from the genus Brachycarcharias? I know that the timelines don't match (since Brachycarcharias appears to be from the Paleocene/Eocene and the rock in which you found your tooth is from the Cretaceous), but maybe it'll help guide you in your research... Monica 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikaelS Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 1-4, 6-7 and 9 are an undescribed Cardabiodontid species (working on describing it). These teeth have occasionally double cusplets. You have teeth of both larger individuals as well as juveniles. 5 is an undescribed Squalicorax (working on that one too). Would need to see the lingual side of 8 but I suspect it belongs to an undescribed genus and species (again work in progress) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Very cool finds and all undescribed, wow. Keep collecting and someday you will, have answers. Thanks for the post the teeth are awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paleoworld-101 Posted September 9, 2016 Author Share Posted September 9, 2016 Thankyou all for the replies! Wow, i wouldn't have guessed that all those teeth were from the same species. I can imagine such high variation in tooth morphology depending on age and jaw position is a real headache for you! Btw, i was the guy who went up and did the Mackunda shark tooth project with Patrick Smith up at Kronosaurus Korner recently. Good to see you here on the forum Mikael! "In Africa, one can't help becoming caught up in the spine-chilling excitement of the hunt. Perhaps, it has something to do with a memory of a time gone by, when we were the prey, and our nights were filled with darkness..." -Eternal Enemies: Lions And Hyenas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikaelS Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Might add that the undescribed cardabiodontid was a very big shark with vertebrae up to 140 mm in diameter. Like Cardabiodon it was quite small-toothed (and thus probably had a larger number of tooth-files) compared to eg Cretoxyrhina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikaelS Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Did you find the Mackunda site David and Noel had sampled previously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khyssa Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Great looking teeth, particularly the ones in matrix! Kara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paleoworld-101 Posted September 9, 2016 Author Share Posted September 9, 2016 54 minutes ago, MikaelS said: Did you find the Mackunda site David and Noel had sampled previously? Patrick took me out to a location on Essex Downs and we collected material there just on the surface (in loose rocks that were lying around, i'm not even sure if the bedrock they were derived from was in the same place as the ground was covered by grass and dirt with no visible outcrop). I'm also not sure if this was the exact spot sampled by David and Noel, probably not though. In the end i didn't have as much time up in Richmond as i'd hoped because Patrick had to leave for a conference in Adelaide. I did get to write up a paper giving taxonomic descriptions of the Mackunda teeth currently in KK's collection though. If you'd like to see it and possibly critique it for me i'd very much appreciate it (it was my first time doing taxonomy, so it needs work but i'm glad to have got a bit of a taste for what vert palaeo research is like). I plan on going back up to Richmond next winter again, possibly continuing work on the Mackunda shark material. We'll see! "In Africa, one can't help becoming caught up in the spine-chilling excitement of the hunt. Perhaps, it has something to do with a memory of a time gone by, when we were the prey, and our nights were filled with darkness..." -Eternal Enemies: Lions And Hyenas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 4 hours ago, MikaelS said: 1-4, 6-7 and 9 are an undescribed Cardabiodontid species (working on describing it). These teeth have occasionally double cusplets. You have teeth of both larger individuals as well as juveniles. 5 is an undescribed Squalicorax (working on that one too). Would need to see the lingual side of 8 but I suspect it belongs to an undescribed genus and species (again work in progress) Hi Paleoworld-101 and MikaelS! Here's a link to a page that explains a little about the Cardabiodontid family of sharks: http://www.chalk.discoveringfossils.co.uk/5 Cardobiodonditids.htm I don't know how reliable this page is, but it mentions that there is some dispute regarding where to place these sharks within a classification system. Apparently some have suggested that the genus Cardabiodon be placed into the Otodontid family of sharks (both Cardabiodontids and Otodontids belong to the same order of sharks, Lamniformes). Like I said earlier, I have very little knowledge regarding sharks, but I love their teeth, especially specimen #6 with its multiple accessory cusps Thanks for sharing your knowledge and finds! Monica 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikaelS Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Always best to go straight to the scientific literature. I can sort of tell that you are somewhat unfamiliar with the topic when you suggest a web-site mentioning cardabiodontids as a source of information to the person who actually described this group. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 5 hours ago, MikaelS said: Always best to go straight to the scientific literature. I can sort of tell that you are somewhat unfamiliar with the topic when you suggest a web-site mentioning cardabiodontids as a source of information to the person who actually described this group. Hi MikaelS, Very true - it is indeed best to consult the scientific literature to get the most reliable information. I was unaware that you were the scientist who first described cardabiodontids. Monica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike from North Queensland Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Palioworld-101 the only shark teeth I have collected at Essex (Mackunda formation) came out of the large conglomerate shell / rock material at the top of the ridge. A seven gill and a couple of others. Lots of ammonites and nautilus material further down as well as a sea star. Mike D'Arcy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paleoworld-101 Posted September 10, 2016 Author Share Posted September 10, 2016 1 hour ago, Mike from North Queensland said: Palioworld-101 the only shark teeth I have collected at Essex (Mackunda formation) came out of the large conglomerate shell / rock material at the top of the ridge. A seven gill and a couple of others. Lots of ammonites and nautilus material further down as well as a sea star. Mike D'Arcy Yes it sounds like the same rocks that my teeth came from, but at a different location. Where i went was literally just a flat grassy paddock within walking distance of the homestead. Did you actually see this material in-situ? "In Africa, one can't help becoming caught up in the spine-chilling excitement of the hunt. Perhaps, it has something to do with a memory of a time gone by, when we were the prey, and our nights were filled with darkness..." -Eternal Enemies: Lions And Hyenas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifbrindacier Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 I collected some shark teeth, about a hundred, one afternoon in the phosphates of east Algeria, but none were in that presevertion state. "On ne voit bien que par le coeur, l'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux." (Antoine de Saint-Exupéry) "We only well see with the heart, the essential is invisible for the eyes." In memory of Doren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikaelS Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 5 hours ago, Monica said: Hi MikaelS, Very true - it is indeed best to consult the scientific literature to get the most reliable information. I was unaware that you were the scientist who first described cardabiodontids. Monica No worries, like many other museum curators I enjoy sharing information with the public and its part of my job. Regarding the 'controversy' the idea that Cardabiodon is an otodontid was submitted to a journal in 2010 or thereabouts by Charlie Underwood et al. (the others non-specialists on fossils sharks). I reviewed that manuscript and pointed out I disagreed with that assignment. Charlie went ahead anyway with the idea and the paper was published in 2011 (Cenomanian sharks from India). Charlie's view was challenged in Newbrey et al. (2015 Acta Palaeontologica Polonica) and is discussed in a manuscript I hope to see published in Alcheringa next year (on Albian sharks from Poland). There are definitely similarities in the upper jaw tooth morphology between Cardabiodon (holotype of type species is about 95 myo) and the 30-35 myo younger Otodus but the problem as I see it, is that when you look at geologically older otodontids they diverge rather than converge in tooth morphology with Cardabiodon (oldest otodontid known from an associated dentition is Cretalamna hattini, about 83 myo; Charlie and I both regard Cretalamna as an otodontid). This suggests convergent evolution as an explanation for the somewhat Otodus-like upper jaw teeth in Cardabiodon. There are also numerous differences in vertebral structure between cardabiodontids and otodontids (see Newbrey et al. 2015). The latter data were not available to Charlie when he wrote his 2011 paper. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike from North Queensland Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 Yes it sounds like the same rocks that my teeth came from, but at a different location. Where i went was literally just a flat grassy paddock within walking distance of the homestead. Did you actually see this material in-situ? The rocks were about 100 metres from the tower along the fence line the ammonites were in the paddock the other side of the fence down to half way to the creek. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikaelS Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 ...and the 30-35 myo younger Otodus... Should rather be ....30-35 million years younger... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paleoworld-101 Posted September 10, 2016 Author Share Posted September 10, 2016 @Mike from North Queensland Thanks, i will do a bit more exploring next time and hopefully find the outcrop. Did you also observe the abundant crab and lobster fossils that were in the same rocks? So awesome!!! @MikaelSiverson Just fyi you are able to edit your posts Cheers, Nathan "In Africa, one can't help becoming caught up in the spine-chilling excitement of the hunt. Perhaps, it has something to do with a memory of a time gone by, when we were the prey, and our nights were filled with darkness..." -Eternal Enemies: Lions And Hyenas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darktooth Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 Awesome finds! I like Trilo-butts and I cannot lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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