Jonelle Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 Looks like s tiny giant clam can someone help me out ? 3cm found Sarasota, FL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonelle Posted November 19, 2016 Author Share Posted November 19, 2016 Some other views... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifbrindacier Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 It is an oyster, it looks like a kind of plicata, but wait for more expert's opinion. "On ne voit bien que par le coeur, l'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux." (Antoine de Saint-Exupéry) "We only well see with the heart, the essential is invisible for the eyes." In memory of Doren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifbrindacier Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 http://fossilshells.nl 1 "On ne voit bien que par le coeur, l'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux." (Antoine de Saint-Exupéry) "We only well see with the heart, the essential is invisible for the eyes." In memory of Doren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 Hi, Dead link Fifbrindacier ! Coco ---------------------- OUTIL POUR MESURER VOS FOSSILES : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 1 (Poissons et sélaciens récents & fossiles) : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 2 (Animaux vivants - sans poissons ni sélaciens) : ici Mâchoires sélaciennes récentes : ici Hétérodontiques et sélaciens : ici Oeufs sélaciens récents : ici Otolithes de poissons récents ! ici Un Greg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifbrindacier Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 3 minutes ago, Coco said: Hi, Dead link Fifbrindacier ! Coco I have just edited it, maintenant ça marche. "On ne voit bien que par le coeur, l'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux." (Antoine de Saint-Exupéry) "We only well see with the heart, the essential is invisible for the eyes." In memory of Doren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifbrindacier Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 It would be better if you took photos of its attaches, please. "On ne voit bien que par le coeur, l'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux." (Antoine de Saint-Exupéry) "We only well see with the heart, the essential is invisible for the eyes." In memory of Doren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonelle Posted November 19, 2016 Author Share Posted November 19, 2016 @fifbrindacier I'm not quite sure what you mean? I'll send another view that I took earlier but it's late here so I'll have to take different photos later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifbrindacier Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 I understand, i worked that night, so i also should be sleeping right now. The attaches are there, it would be interesting to have pics of their profile and closer photos. "On ne voit bien que par le coeur, l'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux." (Antoine de Saint-Exupéry) "We only well see with the heart, the essential is invisible for the eyes." In memory of Doren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownInIt Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 Great fossil! I have found similar ones in NC. I'll have to take a closer look at mine & figure out what they are. B~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonelle Posted November 19, 2016 Author Share Posted November 19, 2016 @fifbrindacierhere are some more I took them on my phone to get closer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmaier Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 fifbrindacier means the hinge area (she calls "attaches"). These oysters are so rough and irregular that it becomes hard to pick out the distinguishing traits, so the hinge is one of those specific traits to look for. Also, the inside of the shell is helpful for classification, but you don't have to open it up! The position of the muscle scar and the geometry of the hinge teeth are usually very unique to a species, and helpful for classification. Well, I've neve been to good with these oysters, but I'm going with Ostrea sculpturata again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonelle Posted November 19, 2016 Author Share Posted November 19, 2016 One more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonelle Posted November 19, 2016 Author Share Posted November 19, 2016 @tmaier that's what I was wondering, if I had to open it to get that photo @fifbrindacier wanted! I don't want to do that!! It's just too cool that it is still attached but it was filled with sand not completely closed and I can move it slightly and try to peak inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmaier Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 When trying to figure out the species, you have to take individual variation into account, and with oysters there is a lot of gross variation in the shapes that they grow. They are highly influenced by the environment and by their neighbors (clustering), so one specimen of these oysters can be deceptive. But.. the trick to classifying them is to look for the stable features that define the species, and with this one I see the deep folds in the shell and round/trianglular shape of the shell. The hinge area comes to distinct apex. All those things seem to point to the species sculpturata. This is one of those cases when there is so much individual variation in the species that having a bunch of them helps to see the common traits that are stable and define the species. So that's my guess, but I've never been too good with oysters. =-( 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 Jonelle, I like those. I've got some of those as well...a tamaier says the oysters are difficult but I'll throw out Plicatula sp. ...there are several species down here...I'll upload a few photos later....There is a small species and as I remember something intermediate and they you get into the monster Hyotissas....lots of other oysters as well. many seem to be found with both sides/valves.... Regards, Chris 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmaier Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 From what I've seen in the lagoons, the bivalves that get burried in sediment quickly are the ones that end up retaining both their shells. I go clamming, and the clams and oysters that are dead and under the silt are whole, while the ones that are dead and above the silt are disarticulated and being washed around loose. Oysters can get buried due to rapid silting, where the lagoonal silt changes its direction and suddenly starts to accululate on an oyster cluster, smothering it. So these bivalves that are found still articulated (both valves together) were buried when they died, and retained both valves. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 OK, I figured out how I goofed with some file transfers... So here are some of the ones I did bring home and I have not tried to sort by genus/species due to reasons Tmaier has suggested...just relative size...Certainly could be a mix of different genus/species and different maturities in there...The photo on left are under 2 inches and the photo on the left are over 2-4 inches.... A link to the Florida NHM photo gallery for a possible answer for the some of the smaller species Plicatula.gibbosa.. https://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/invertpaleo/display.asp?catalog_number=134030&gallery_type=Non-Florida Mollusca Another link to the Florida NHM photo gallery showing a possible answer to the some of medium sized ones...P.hunterae http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/invertpaleo/display.asp?catalog_number=3655&gallery_type=Holotype Mollusca From the photo gallery here's what the larger ones with similar ribbing look like...there are other Hyotissa species as well. https://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/invertpaleo/display.asp?catalog_number=7844&gallery_type=Florida Mollusca-Bivalvia All for today...family/relatives are showing up soon..oh geez! Continued hunting success! Regards, Chris 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifbrindacier Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 7 hours ago, Jonelle said: @tmaier that's what I was wondering, if I had to open it to get that photo @fifbrindacier wanted! I don't want to do that!! It's just too cool that it is still attached but it was filled with sand not completely closed and I can move it slightly and try to peak inside. No, i didn't want you opening it ! I should rather have say articulation or hinge, in french we also say attaches for it. I spoke of what i circled and you took the right photos, thanks. In the link i provided you (http://fossilshells.nl, choose : collections, geographical (or geological) entry, Florida, pleistocene, then "next" to the screen 13), you'll see that yours really look like a plicatula gibbosa or hunterae, as suggested @Plantguy. 1 "On ne voit bien que par le coeur, l'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux." (Antoine de Saint-Exupéry) "We only well see with the heart, the essential is invisible for the eyes." In memory of Doren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonelle Posted November 20, 2016 Author Share Posted November 20, 2016 Thank you for that walk through @fifbrindacier... how did you know I was stuck on the front page? To me it looks like gibbosa from the top and marginals from the other side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonelle Posted November 20, 2016 Author Share Posted November 20, 2016 @Plantguy wow! You have a ton! Now mine doesn't feel special haha.. great info thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifbrindacier Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 Yes, i agree, to me it more looks like a Plicatula gibbosa according to its size, hinge and shape, the ondulations the oysters show variate a lot between two individuals, so it is not a good characteristic to identify them. This said, as often with the oysters, it is difficult to identify the species of one from another and only an expert can see properly the right characteristics on a photo. And i am not an expert. "On ne voit bien que par le coeur, l'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux." (Antoine de Saint-Exupéry) "We only well see with the heart, the essential is invisible for the eyes." In memory of Doren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmaier Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 The gibbosa species has the right triangluar shape, but lack the proninent folds in the shell. The marginata has the prominent folds, but seems too circular. Oysters drive me crazy. I have a half dozen species in the back room that I have given up on. Well, I can't say "given up on", I would say that I'm taking a hiatus from them for a couple decades. =-) In cases like this, it is best to go find the verbal description that defines the species. The author will point out the distinctive features that define what makes this species different from closly associated species. I mentioned that in the Sarasota area the Arca wagneriana and Arca zebra species have a lot of transitional forms that cause confusion in classification, and I often wonder if that is also true of these oysters, that they are not well punctuated in their species morphology. Anyway, I use that excuse when I can't seem to classify them. =-) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 Hey Tmaier, I got a chuckle when you commented about them drying you crazy. I agree and they would have effected me too but I was already crazy and thats why I picked up so many and maybe some day I'll open a bunch of them and clean them and see if there are any significant grouping within that pile I accumulated. I can see distinct differences on alot of the single valves that suggest I should do more with sorting the paired individuals....I'd be happy with just a genus on some of them but as you say an expert like Mike or Roger may venture a firm ID but I'm not committing just making some suggestions. I appreciate your insights. I am curious to know if any others who may have collected at APAC or SMR in Sarasota in the day ever saw any patterns within the sizes/distribution within any particular zone that they collected in. The smaller guys I find are more commonly in Sarasota and seem to be easily found with both valves.. My spoils collections from multiple sites around the area only include a handful of larger articulated individuals. I suspect that their rarity and my finding them is controlled by numerous factors and there are just more smaller ones to be found. My guess is that most folks simply didnt go for collecting oysters as there are so many other interesting shells...maybe the literature gets into some trends/descriptions of facies/distribution...but I so like the crazy ridges that some have. I suspect Jonelle will find more! You can literally almost go in many a drainage ditch along a road and find something. Regards, Chris Regards, Chris 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmaier Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 Good, illustrative photos showing the diversity of oysters in Florida, Plantguy. I've mentioned this before, but when I line up specimens to try to spot species distinctions, I start humming the Sesame Street song "Which of these things goes with the other?", a childs song about recognizing group characterisitcs. =-) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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