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Plantguy

More Florida scraps from the garage

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Plantguy

Hey Gang, 

 

I've been messing with some more boxed stuff from awhile ago in my garage. All is Florida material...typical possible Mio-Pliocene, Pleistocene in age.

 

4 Different specimens for your feedback/consideration:

 

1) A worn Turtle neural? or possibly a turtle skull element? 1.5cm long. The triangular shape intrigues me. Any chance a genus can be assigned? 

Resized_20170507_213301.thumb.jpg.bd4c4ee9cc671a0216a3c45d3bfac696.jpgResized_20170507_213335.thumb.jpg.a976caf65266924c3fa95c464a20add7.jpg

2) A bone end. Approximately 3.5cm long. Is it possible to tell from what bone? Any ideas about the possible critter type? Panorama showing different angles..

591ba682d66fd_Unknownboneend.thumb.jpg.093acdd379ae0382f7a0480939e25ae3.jpg

3) Very small worm burrow traces or possibly pelecypod burrows? Pebble is only 2 cm long. Traces are approximately 1-2mm wide/long. I was intrigued with the "four leaf clover pattern created by some of them. Has anyone seen this before? 

Resized_20170514_103748.thumb.jpg.76c33e27516dce4a48a721aa6c139a7f.jpg

4) Partial mammal tooth. approx 4.5cm tall. I was intrigued by the tree root like patterns on the lower portion of the tooth.... In the 2nd photo the unknown is on the right and before it are 2 smaller similar fragments that were also found. Was thinking juvenile elephant of some type but I defer to you all. Nor am I  sure if the 3 fragments are from the same critter or not. 

591ba75123fb7_Unknownpartialtooth.thumb.jpg.1576808a3d5bd25cb31239f5f50b58aa.jpg

591ba7801ffc8_Resized_20170509_205800(2).thumb.jpg.ea0d6cf8d556db94df0a341800b0a226.jpg

Hoping there is something here that can be identified with some certainty. 

Thanks for the looks. 

 

Regards, Chris 

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abyssunder

It could be possible that the holes in the pebble are made by worms similar to Polydora.

 

" All the Polydora species make a U-shaped tube from small particles of mud, or whitish calcareous matter if they have been burrowing into calcareous algae, shell, or limey stone; all this is stuck together with secreted mucus. The tube is normally embedded in the burrow that it has excavated. There are two holes in the mud tube, one at the front and one at the back end – but they lie side by side because the tube and burrow are U-shaped. In the examples photographed here, many worm tubes are packed together, and there are instances where the chalk burrows have joined together and broadened out into deeper, less well-defined, depressions. " - Jessica Winder

 

Resized_20170514_103748.jpg.740e8631ef26a37b936831b548fc010d.thumb.jpg.78081c140b8889de0b54ae0c29fbfb0f.jpgp1210926tubewormholesringsteadchalkboulders8.jpg.94df506caf3f541e04c82df5180bdae7.jpg

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Plantguy

Thanks Abyssunder! I pick up all kinds of stuff and the curiosity just kills me no matter what and I appreciate your looks and help.

 

There are all kinds of different worm traces in these deposits. Here's another pebble sized one that I thought was curious as well--pictures arent so hot but could be the same critter.

20170127_185019.thumb.jpg.d14984919058860202dd65c747cc9364.jpgResized_20170127_184600.thumb.jpg.ae4c51810986b254746396376e4bccf6.jpg

I guess lately I'm stuck on wondering about fragmentary stuff and have only shown you all that material but the garage does have a bunch of more complete invert material from Florida...Im not sure if some of the other Floridians have already sent you some stuff from here so just PM me and I'll send you some stuff if you want more--No trades...Im happy to lessen the out of control pile in the garage that is taking up too much dang room out there...Let me know if you are into anything specific. Gastropods, traces, pelecypods, etc.. 

591e75e0ac736_Resized_20170511_202139(1).thumb.jpg.4207d10b9123e7b611ae450686437bff.jpg

 

Regards, Chris 

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Cris

#1 The fossil looks like one of the center vertebral scutes from a tortoise (or turtle). It doesn't look like any skull element that I've seen.

#2, I believe, is the distal end of a fairly large metapodial. The condition is a little rough, but it reminds me of some carnivore metapodials I've found. It's difficult to say for sure because of the condition, though. Perhaps another Plesitocene vertebrate guy will chime in here.

#4, The top left picture makes it look a lot like it would have been a horse molar...But wow is that thing(s) messed up!
 

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Plantguy
28 minutes ago, Cris said:

#1 The fossil looks like one of the center vertebral scutes from a tortoise (or turtle). It doesn't look like any skull element that I've seen.

#2, I believe, is the distal end of a fairly large metapodial. The condition is a little rough, but it reminds me of some carnivore metapodials I've found. It's difficult to say for sure because of the condition, though. Perhaps another Plesitocene vertebrate guy will chime in here.

#4, The top left picture makes it look a lot like it would have been a horse molar...But wow is that thing(s) messed up!
 

Hey Cris, thanks for the insights/feedback. Yep #1's triangular shape I cant seem to find in the books...I've been looking at the diagrams in The Fossil turtles of North American turtles by Hay https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=G19YAAAAYAAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PA1&dq=fossil+turtles+of+north+america&ots=LJ47lGNk7S&sig=clUYu0tfpsWKhCiTs9aCxKzinBo#v=onepage&q=fossil turtles of north america&f=false

 

and their neurals but have yet to run across it...could be its just worn and thats what is throwing me off....I'll go look at some metapodial ends for #2

 

#4 I do tend to pick up any weird stuff and wonder about it for a long time....This fossil collecting thing can be maddening---is that a word? LOL.

 

Thanks again! Regards, Chris 

Edited by Plantguy
added url for Turtle reference

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abyssunder

Yes, they are pretty nice worms and other interesting specimens I could see there in your excellent pictures! :)

 

The  worms prefer to live in colonies, I've never asked myself why.

 

#1 - could be a neural plate of turtle or tortoise, as Cris said already. I agree. I think, the key is to match how many plates should have been there all around the specimen in question, in the initial stage.

 

Thank you for your generous offer, Chris. Honestly, I'm interested in the Floridan invertebrate and vertebrate fauna, because it is intriguing, diverse, sometimes nicely preserved, sometimes confusing. I'm so far from that place. It will be good to have some fossils collected by someone with experience in the domain. I think I'll never have the opportunity to be there, collecting. :(

 

I'll MP you.

Thanks!

 

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abyssunder

I came across this document describing Caulostrepsis taeniola with borings similar to those from your pebble. Hanken, N.-M., Uchman, A. & Jakobsen, S. L. 2012 (January): Late Pleistocene–early Holocene polychaete borings in NE Spitsbergen and their palaeoecological and climatic implications: an example from the Basissletta area. Boreas, Vol. 41, pp. 42–55.

 

" Systematic description
Ichnogenus Caulostrepsis Clarke, 1908; Caulostrepsis taeniola Clarke, 1908; Figs 3A–E, 4A–D

 

Description. - U-shaped pouch-like borings, 1.5–4mm, exceptionally up to 8mm wide, mostly up to 10 mm, rarely up to 17mm and exceptionally up to 22mm long. Their width is even or they are slightly wider distally. The boring displays distinct or indistinct marginal tunnels (limbs+vertex; see Fig. 2 for terminology), which are 0.5–1.2mm wide. The area between the tunnels, that is, vane sensu Bromley & D’Alessandro (1983), is only slightly thinner than the limbs. In some borings, the surface of the vane is covered with linear corrugations forming arcs, which display concordance with the curvature of the vertex, or rarely with limbs of the marginal tunnel (Fig. 4B). Some borings are enlarged by weathering; their morphology is partly smeared. In some specimens, only the shallow, basal part is preserved (Fig. 3E). The remainder has been truncated by erosion. The entire boring is straight or slightly curved in most cases, but in some specimens it is strongly bent or even winds slightly in the horizontal plane. Their marginal tunnel is somewhat contorted. Such borings are transitional forms to Caulostrepsis contorta. In cross-section, the analysed Caulostrepsis appears dumbbell-shaped (lower part) or has figure-of eight-shaped perforations (apertural part). The longer axis of the apertures of borings is differently oriented, perpendicular or oblique to the rock surface. The apertural part is commonly partly abraded. (...)

 

It is difficult to distinguish between Caulostrepsis taeniola and Caulostrepsis contorta in the field because their entrances display the same morphology. Hence, the number of Caulostrepsis contorta is probably underestimated.
Bromley & D’Alessandro (1983), who discussed this ichnospecies, compared Caulostrepsis contorta with the borings of the living spionid polychaete Polydora concharum Verrill, illustrated by Evans (1969), and with borings of Polydora ciliata, illustrated by Bromley (1970). The initial ramified pouches can also be seen in borings of Polydora websteri Hartman, which bores chemically and mechanically in bivalve shells (Douville´ 1908; Blake & Evans 1973; Zottoli & Carriker 1974). Borings of Polydora concharum also display the same features (Martin & Britayev 1998). The transitional forms between Caulostrepsis taeniola and Caulostrepsis contorta in the studied material strongly suggest that they were produced by the same tracemaker, probably Polydora ciliata. "

592974183a5ef_Fig.2.thumb.jpg.5f14e6481a341e48d04ef8b0ac4c487c.jpg592974161081f_Fig.3..thumb.jpg.6221e5a64a1f52b579f3be0cafc42872.jpg

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doushantuo

good call,Abyss

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Plantguy
On 5/27/2017 at 8:43 AM, abyssunder said:

I came across this document describing Caulostrepsis taeniola with borings similar to those from your pebble. Hanken, N.-M., Uchman, A. & Jakobsen, S. L. 2012 (January): Late Pleistocene–early Holocene polychaete borings in NE Spitsbergen and their palaeoecological and climatic implications: an example from the Basissletta area. Boreas, Vol. 41, pp. 42–55.

 

" Systematic description
Ichnogenus Caulostrepsis Clarke, 1908; Caulostrepsis taeniola Clarke, 1908; Figs 3A–E, 4A–D

 

Description. - U-shaped pouch-like borings, 1.5–4mm, exceptionally up to 8mm wide, mostly up to 10 mm, rarely up to 17mm and exceptionally up to 22mm long. Their width is even or they are slightly wider distally. The boring displays distinct or indistinct marginal tunnels (limbs+vertex; see Fig. 2 for terminology), which are 0.5–1.2mm wide. The area between the tunnels, that is, vane sensu Bromley & D’Alessandro (1983), is only slightly thinner than the limbs. In some borings, the surface of the vane is covered with linear corrugations forming arcs, which display concordance with the curvature of the vertex, or rarely with limbs of the marginal tunnel (Fig. 4B). Some borings are enlarged by weathering; their morphology is partly smeared. In some specimens, only the shallow, basal part is preserved (Fig. 3E). The remainder has been truncated by erosion. The entire boring is straight or slightly curved in most cases, but in some specimens it is strongly bent or even winds slightly in the horizontal plane. Their marginal tunnel is somewhat contorted. Such borings are transitional forms to Caulostrepsis contorta. In cross-section, the analysed Caulostrepsis appears dumbbell-shaped (lower part) or has figure-of eight-shaped perforations (apertural part). The longer axis of the apertures of borings is differently oriented, perpendicular or oblique to the rock surface. The apertural part is commonly partly abraded. (...)

 

It is difficult to distinguish between Caulostrepsis taeniola and Caulostrepsis contorta in the field because their entrances display the same morphology. Hence, the number of Caulostrepsis contorta is probably underestimated.
Bromley & D’Alessandro (1983), who discussed this ichnospecies, compared Caulostrepsis contorta with the borings of the living spionid polychaete Polydora concharum Verrill, illustrated by Evans (1969), and with borings of Polydora ciliata, illustrated by Bromley (1970). The initial ramified pouches can also be seen in borings of Polydora websteri Hartman, which bores chemically and mechanically in bivalve shells (Douville´ 1908; Blake & Evans 1973; Zottoli & Carriker 1974). Borings of Polydora concharum also display the same features (Martin & Britayev 1998). The transitional forms between Caulostrepsis taeniola and Caulostrepsis contorta in the studied material strongly suggest that they were produced by the same tracemaker, probably Polydora ciliata. "

592974183a5ef_Fig.2.thumb.jpg.5f14e6481a341e48d04ef8b0ac4c487c.jpg592974161081f_Fig.3..thumb.jpg.6221e5a64a1f52b579f3be0cafc42872.jpg

Thanks Lori for doing the research--much appreciated. I've got some other Caulostrepsis examples in the collection somewhere. 

 

Regards, Chris 

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