Found the head of something need help identifying!

[AmberH]

I have found a head of what I believe may be a lizard that likes dr pepper (lol joke!!)? No really, I was wondering if anyone knows what this is? I have no idea if its a fish, lizard, or a monster!  I have more pictures, but this is the first time I have ever posted ANYTHING online to a discussion board  and I was not able to upload more than two of my pictures at a time. Let me know if you would like to see the other pictures if needed

[Vieira]

I don't see any fossil.

 

Only a rock. Let see another comments

[Fossildude19]

Hello Amber, and Welcome to the Forum.   

 

Unfortunately, I am not seeing any fossils in the rock you have posted. 

 

     

[AmberH]

Here are other photos figured it could help

[AmberH]

Sorry i cant figure out how to reply to your replies lol. Im ignorant on fossil terminology. I think the entire rock is a whole head..on the back of it, there is a vertebrae.  The side that is indented, matches the other side...like where i think an eye is and teeth match the other side

[Fossildude19]

While superficially, I can see what vaguely resembles a skull,

 

 

I see no bone texture, or skull morphology (shape or form) that would lead me to believe it is a skull.   

Also, if it was found in Illinois,  most of the rock exposed in Illinois is Paleozoic in ages, and most vertebrate fossils are found in the Mazon creek type nodules. 

 

 

I think what is happening here, is a case of seeing familiar looking patterns that don't actually exist. (Pareidolia) 

Kind regards,

Tim

 

 

 

[Ludwigia]

I'm sorry, but also I am just seeing plain old rock here. If possible, please point out to us, perhaps using a drawing program, to indicate to us where you think you can see a vertebra, an eye and teeth, then we can get a bit more specific in the simplest terminology possible.

[AmberH]

Ok. When i get home I will take some pics of the back of it so you can all see what i think is a bone. I will be bummed if its not a t-rex head lol I will also see if i can figure out how to draw on the current pictures it like you all did bear with me here....new to fossils and new to message boards!

[Macrophyseter]

35 minutes ago, AmberH said:

I will be bummed if its not a t-rex head lol

Unfortunately, trex does not exist naturally in Illinois. You'll have to go to hell creek in Montana to find one. Plus, a trex head would be WAY bigger than you!

 

But if you can't find fossils now, don't sweat! You might be near the famous fossil size known as Mazon Creek. The site contains lots of these rocks which hold fossils inside when split open.

[RJB]

All I see is rock.  I think the imagination is what is turning this into a head.  Sorry

 

RB

[AmberH]

Thanks everyone for your help!!

[westcoast]

I agree with all the comments from the learned members above. Maybe try painting the rock and turning it onto a piece of art...

[KimTexan]

Be nice fellas. I believe a simple statement of saying you "concur" with a previously stated opinion that doesn't affirm a newby will be more respected and less likely to dampen their youthful enthusiasm. 

 

Amber I've been hunting and collecting for over 30 years. I still pick up stuff thinking it may be something only to figure out it's nothing after I get it home and take a good look at it. The more you go out hunting the more trained your eye will become to find good pieces and you'll find some awesome stuff if you keep at it. If you haven't done so already look up a local paleontological society and go out on some of the field trips with them and you'll go to good sites for finding stuff and also learn a lot from others who go. Don't lose the enthusiasm.

[westcoast]

1 hour ago, KimTexan said:

Be nice fellas. I believe a simple statement of saying you "concur" with a previously stated opinion that doesn't affirm a newby will be more respected and less likely to dampen their youthful enthusiasm. 

 

Amber I've been hunting and collecting for over 30 years. I still pick up stuff thinking it may be something only to figure out it's nothing after I get it home and take a good look at it. The more you go out hunting the more trained your eye will become to find good pieces and you'll find some awesome stuff if you keep at it. If you haven't done so already look up a local paleontological society and go out on some of the field trips with them and you'll go to good sites for finding stuff and also learn a lot from others who go. Don't lose the enthusiasm.

What's the 'be nice fellas' comment? 

[fifbrindacier]

Hi Amber, i'm a pretty new one in matter of fossils and my first founds where mostly odd shaped rocks and "false" wood. Now, even if i'm not at all expert, i have much progressed. So keep on and follow the counsel of @KimTexan, that's very useful and enriching.

[KimTexan]

Like I said " I believe a simple statement of you "concur" with a previously stated opinion that doesn't affirm a newby will be more respected and less likely to dampen their youthful enthusiasm."

 

@westcoast I have no desire to cause offense or create conflict. From my perspective I could see how the statement about painting the rock could potentially be taken as patronizing/offensive or deflating at the very least. There were also several statements about imagination, the first being said pretty tactfully, but compounded by less thoughtful ones I was concerned how it could all be collectively taken and I didn't want that to be the last word the young lady heard. I want to support her desire to learn. I hope that's at least part of what this forum is about. That's part of the reason I'm here. 

[westcoast]

5 hours ago, KimTexan said:

Like I said " I believe a simple statement of you "concur" with a previously stated opinion that doesn't affirm a newby will be more respected and less likely to dampen their youthful enthusiasm."

 

@westcoast I have no desire to cause offense or create conflict. From my perspective I could see how the statement about painting the rock could potentially be taken as patronizing/offensive or deflating at the very least. There were also several statements about imagination, the first being said pretty tactfully, but compounded by less thoughtful ones I was concerned how it could all be collectively taken and I didn't want that to be the last word the young lady heard. I want to support her desire to learn. I hope that's at least part of what this forum is about. That's part of the reason I'm here. 

Ah Ok. I think that we sometimes dismiss a non-fossil bearing rock as somehow being worthless whereas they can actually have more value if looked at in a different way. I'm an artist and geologist. I often do just put 'I agree' or '+1' but sometimes I like to add a little extra to the conversation. Perhaps I should have prefixed my comment with 'as an artist...' I agree that nuances of meaning can be lost by trying to be a bit too brief.

[Crann]

Welll... that escalated quickly for no real reason, I thought painting it wasn't a bad idea.

[Fossildude19]

10 hours ago, KimTexan said:

Like I said " I believe a simple statement of you "concur" with a previously stated opinion that doesn't affirm a newby will be more respected and less likely to dampen their youthful enthusiasm."

 

@westcoast I have no desire to cause offense or create conflict. From my perspective I could see how the statement about painting the rock could potentially be taken as patronizing/offensive or deflating at the very least. There were also several statements about imagination, the first being said pretty tactfully, but compounded by less thoughtful ones I was concerned how it could all be collectively taken and I didn't want that to be the last word the young lady heard. I want to support her desire to learn. I hope that's at least part of what this forum is about. That's part of the reason I'm here. 

 

Kim,

Thanks for pointing this out.  We try to be a supportive community here.  

Tone and intent can be difficult to interpret on the internet.   

 

There have been numerous times in the past, when people showing us non-fossils have been adamant that they have what they think they have, and will defend their "fossil" to the point of belligerence.    We just try to make it clear that what they have is not a fossil.

 

Some of us have more practice doing this in a supportive manner.

But not everyone can pull that off.    And, sometimes, meanings can be lost in poor phrasing of replies.

 

Frankly, the diversity of the Forum is what makes this a community. People of all ages, races, religions, educational backgrounds, and experiences enrich the Forum as a whole.

We come together to share this passion for fossils.

 

People looking for opinions and ID's of their fossils should be approaching it with an open mind.

Unfortunately, this is often not the case, and no evidence, argument or reasoning will sway their misguided opinion.

And while they are entitled to have their opinion, as a scientific Forum with thousands of visitors a day, we try to teach the difference between fossils, pseudo-fossils, and non-fossils .

This means we must speak against false or outlandish claims and pseudo-science. And, unfortunately, this happens quite a bit.

 

But this is a great reminder that we should not just try to inform by way of negative answers, because that can lead to crushing disappointment for some.

We should always strive to be supportive, patient, and informative.   

[fifbrindacier]

I agree with Tim, and we also should remember that for the ones for which english is a foreign language, more the less american english, all the subtilities are not possible to understand or express well enough to be well interpretated.

[KimTexan]

@Fossildude19 I understand. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.

When I was much younger I thought the truth was so important and that I had a responsibility to inform or convince others of the truth, LOL. It often didn't go over that well. I can laugh at myself about it now.  Preserving relationship and the dignity of the person without compromising principle, character or integrity is generally one of my highest priorities. 

One thing I appreciate people doing on here in the ID section is providing links or quoting resources to information which can aid in educating the inquirer.

I've seen quite a few posts on here where the "fossil" truly appeared to be nothing but a rock. Granted sometimes it may have to do with picture quality, but there has to be a  article/resource out there that can address some aspects of the rock vs fossil issues which can serve to educate people and also lend some credibility to "it's a rock" statement. A scholarly article on the topic may be better received by some and do wonders to advance their (me included) understanding. Paleontology isn't my field, but you all have to have some equivalent to the medical and biological sciences PubMed or OMIM (those are my go-to sites) that is a go-to reference site to search all things paleontological/earth science where a review article or some reference can be given. It's just a thought.

 

 

[Fossildude19]

8 hours ago, KimTexan said:

@Fossildude19 I understand. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.

When I was much younger I thought the truth was so important and that I had a responsibility to inform or convince others of the truth, LOL. It often didn't go over that well. I can laugh at myself about it now.  Preserving relationship and the dignity of the person without compromising principle, character or integrity is generally one of my highest priorities. 

One thing I appreciate people doing on here in the ID section is providing links or quoting resources to information which can aid in educating the inquirer.

I've seen quite a few posts on here where the "fossil" truly appeared to be nothing but a rock. Granted sometimes it may have to do with picture quality, but there has to be a  article/resource out there that can address some aspects of the rock vs fossil issues which can serve to educate people and also lend some credibility to "it's a rock" statement. A scholarly article on the topic may be better received by some and do wonders to advance their (me included) understanding. Paleontology isn't my field, but you all have to have some equivalent to the medical and biological sciences PubMed or OMIM (those are my go-to sites) that is a go-to reference site to search all things paleontological/earth science where a review article or some reference can be given. It's just a thought.

Kim,

Please call me Tim.    It's much easier to type.  

 

Unfortunately, there really is no "go to" website or resource.  There are may journals, websites, databases, and archives that can be helpful to help in determining what things are.

Geological, paleaontological, paleoecological websites and resources abound. Because paleontology touches so many tangential disciplines (geology, biology, osteology, ecology, stratigraphy, taphonomy, lithology, to name a few.) there are many intertwined and interwoven threads that are nearly impossible to put into one quick go to website or source. 

 

The fossil identification process is much like detective work.  See this post.

 

I feel as you do, that the best answers are the ones that give information or explanations as to why something is what it is, or why it isn't what it looks like. 

 

Identifying 3 dimensional rocks, fossils, or minerals from 2 dimensional photos is a difficult task, at best.  

Sometimes we can be wrong, but, more often, we are correct. That is because the people who try to help here are in many cases, working from experience.

 

Many of us have spent years looking at, handling, finding, studying, and preparing fossils. They have read scientific papers. Some have degrees in paleontology.

Some just have a ton of "hands on" experience with fossils. Our combined experiences provide a wealth of knowledge that can be used to help identify these mystery items

that come to our attention. Visually recognizing patterns, shapes, textures and form are skills that come with that experience.

 

The people without this knowledge/experience, who look for identification of their items, will often times come here with preconceived notions of what they have. 

Because they are focused on the appearance of what they have, they cannot get beyond the  "but it looks like ..."  phase.

We bring our collective knowledge of fossils here to hopefully inform people of what they have.  A number of things are taken into consideration. 

Where the item was found, it's size, and the shape, texture, and form of the items are all clues as to what the item could be.

 

We know where to start the process, and work through the deductive reasoning to try to arrive at a consensus as to what it may be, that people bring us to identify.

 

I think that, because of our experience, we sometimes just know what many common fossils are, and don't take the time to explain how we know that, or what 

leads us to the conclusions we make. This is a condition that is partly considered by some to be "common knowledge" in the fossil realm, or not expanded upon due to time restraints.

Sometimes we just don't have, or are unable to take the time, when posting,to explain something that to us, is obvious.

 

 

And honestly, sometimes, people don't really want to know the whys, and hows, and other information, other than "what do I have?", and often, "What is it worth?"

 

I guess, all in all, you get what you pay for, here on the Forum.