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garyc

mammal tooth?

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garyc

This one has me stumped. I'm not sure if it's a pleistocene aged tooth from something like beaver or a rodent; or maybe even something marine like a coral. The "tubes" seem to run the entire length of it. I haven't even ruled out man made. It measures 1.5 inches x 3/8in. x 5/8in. I welcome all opinions. Thanks!

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ynot

Where was this found?

I am thinking plant. Something like a palm or fern - that has a fibrous wood.

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Rockwood

This may seem like an odd question, but, what color is it ?

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TqB

My first impression was a hexactinellid sponge root mass, loosely called Hyalostelia  though that's also a proper genus. Often found in the Palaeozoic but can be more recent.

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Rockwood

Am I ever glad I gave up trying to identify sponges now !

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garyc

I found it on the Brazos River, SE Texas. Mostly pleistocene/holocene w/ the seldom found miocene and eocene exposures about a hundred miles to the north. Much further up river than that; I think there are older exposures. I'd say it's a dark gray color, not quite black.

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ynot
Just now, garyc said:

I found it on the Brazos River, SE Texas. Mostly pleistocene/holocene w/ the seldom found miocene and eocene exposures about a hundred miles to the north. Much further up river than that; I think there are older exposures. I'd say it's a dark gray color, not quite black.

Terrestrial or marine?

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garyc
1 minute ago, ynot said:

Terrestrial or marine?

Sorry, Tony. The older exposures to the far north are marine.

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westcoast

Kinda looks like Siphonodendron, a paleozoic colonial rugose coral but clearly it would have to have been transported from further afield..

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WhodamanHD

Hate to muddy the water further, but rudist colony was my first thought.

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ynot

Maybe a tube worm colony, but I am just guessing. It is a strange one.

Maybe @Harry Pristis will have an idea on whether it is a tooth or not.

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coled18

I am leaning towards coral on this one, it looks like a chunk of syringopora. 

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Harry Pristis
2 hours ago, ynot said:

Maybe a tube worm colony, but I am just guessing. It is a strange one.

Maybe @Harry Pristis will have an idea on whether it is a tooth or not.

 

It's like no tooth I've ever seen.  Much more likely to be a colonial invertebrate.

 

 

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Rockwood
6 hours ago, coled18 said:

I am leaning towards coral on this one, it looks like a chunk of syringopora. 

I don't think so. The walls are too strait and thick, and the interconnections are missing. Instead they seem to be fused together to the point of being shared in places.

At first glance the color suggests plant, but no other indications follow. The rusty color tends to make me think we are dealing with iron that was in a somewhat reduced environment at the time. 

There are tube worm colonies that live near mid ocean vents today, so I think something like that would be my guess too. 

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TqB

I don't think it's a coral - there's no internal structure visible in the sectioned tubes at the top.

If it's a derived piece, I still think Hyalostelia-type root spicules is a good possibility, they run parallel just like that.

They'd likely still be made of silica so a hardness test might help decide, wouldn't scratch with a knife. 

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Rockwood
1 hour ago, TqB said:

I don't think it's a coral - there's no internal structure visible in the sectioned tubes at the top.

If it's a derived piece, I still think Hyalostelia-type root spicules is a good possibility, they run parallel just like that.

They'd likely still be made of silica so a hardness test might help decide, wouldn't scratch with a knife. 

Can you share an example that is more informative than that of our friends at Google ?

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TqB
1 hour ago, Rockwood said:

Can you share an example that is more informative than that of our friends at Google ?

 

I don't have any good specimens but this one is similar, from the Mississippian. The tubes are about 0.5mm but they can be wider, 1mm or more.

Brass scale is 1cm long.

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And an illustration of Hyalostelia smithi, Lower Carboniferous, from the Natural History Museum handbook "British Palaeozoic Fossils". It's x1 so the rule gives the scale.

IMG_2715.jpg.c024c11724b43b1aa0d9bc1df7ad881c.jpg

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garyc

Thank you all for the input. I'm sure one of you is right. Just don't know which one. I guess this is one that would have to be seen in hand. At least mammal tooth can be ruled out and the id's are trending toward marine. 

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Rockwood
2 hours ago, TqB said:

an illustration of Hyalostelia smithi

 

1 hour ago, garyc said:

I guess this is one that would have to be seen in hand.

I can see how one might get there from here with a lens in the other hand.

The fact that the post shows considerable fusion between the tubes still seems like a worm thing to me though.

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TqB
1 hour ago, Rockwood said:

 

I can see how one might get there from here with a lens in the other hand.

The fact that the post shows considerable fusion between the tubes still seems like a worm thing to me though.

 

Could well be. Whether carbonate or silica would be suggestive - silica for hexactinellid, though I'm told replacement by carbonate can happen for siliceous sponges. (I've not come across silicified serpulids though I suppose that's also possible...)

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abyssunder

I wouldn't rule out hexactinellid sponge root tuft as a good possibility. The problem is gained by the shared walls. I think in Don's example from this topic we can see the shared wall structure in the holding matrix.

 

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