Hell Creek Dinosaurs Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 This is my first time posting on this site. I have the opportunity to purchase a potential Dromaeosaur type dinosaur fossil from the Yixian Formation of China. I know there are laws about exporting these types of fossils but the dealer assures me it has been in his possession for a long time. Also, I am willing to take the risk to own an incredible piece of history like this. However, I am not sure if the fossil is real. Based on what I have seen and read the fossil looks like the real deal but would like some other people's advice about it. It is described as a Dromaeosaur type dinosaur which is what the skeleton looks like but would like anyone else's opinion on whether it is authentic or not. Thanks for you help! -Ryan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Ryan Welcome to the forum. Looks real but photos dont always tell the full story. Do you have any closeups of the tail and a straight in closeup of the hip ? It reminds me of Sinornithosaurus, see photo, from that formation which is a dromaeosaurid but could be something else. How well do you know the dealer and is he domestic ? I would not purchase this without careful up close examination unless I trusted the dealer and knew that he was knowledgeable in what he sold. Not just a flip. I also would not purchase it just to resell it and it would be nice if the dealer can provide you a document of when he purchased it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Welcome to the forum. I am no expert like some of these guys and gals but my instinct and basic knowledge says real. Super piece. 2 Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 I personally would not take a chance on this, as it is illegal to export/import vertebrate fossils from China. I don't believe amount of time owned or when collected even enter into the equation. Purchasing and receiving this could be a good way to end up on the wrong side of the law. I would steer well clear of this item. 4 Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hell Creek Dinosaurs Posted November 13, 2017 Author Share Posted November 13, 2017 Thanks for the info. This would be for my personal collection not just to flip. I am inquiring about more pictures right now and will post more when I get them. Again, thanks for the advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aplomado Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Is the fossil currently in China? If so, I would say NO WAY sounds highly illegal. If it in the states already, who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTrilobite Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Looks real. But, there doesn't seem to be much overlap between the two pieces. These could be two unrelated specimens. But I would like to point out that it looks like there are feather imprints on the footpad on one foot on the left. I don't think that's even been seen on dinosaur fossils before. And it looks like there are scale impressions on the footpad on the foot on the right. I can also see the remnants of keratinous claw sheaths. So the preservation appears to be quite exquisite. 4 Olof Moleman AKA Lord Trilobite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Speeding Carno Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 If this is a real fossil, which it looks like it is, I'd steer clear this fossil has potential to be scientifically significant. This could get you in serious trouble with the law of it is still in China. I have also heard stories of fossils getting confiscated and sent back to china from the US. If you do purchase it I would highly suggest donating it to a scientific institution, as Lord Trilobite says it is an exquisite specimen that could be scientifically important. If you do not wish to donate there is also the option of lending it for study by paleontologists. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izak_ Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 I agree with the above. The feathers on the feet interest me, and I would also contact a palaeontologist about it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 Cool fossil. Bad prep job. RB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Andy- Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 I've only known this dealer to sell authentic Chinese fossils, so I believe it's real. 1 Looking forward to meeting my fellow Singaporean collectors! Do PM me if you are a Singaporean, or an overseas fossil-collector coming here for a holiday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClawGuy Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 It’s either Jeholornis or Jixiangornis. Those are avian feet, not Dromaeosaurid. And this has been verified 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyhen Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 I would say it is genuine. Typical prep job done locally in Liaoning in which these fossils are found. The time that the seller owns this fossil does not mean anything if the fossil is now in China as export of these fossils are prohibited no matter when it was found. The law states clearly that export and selling of fossils to foreigners are strictly prohibited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelhead9 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 Could someone send me a link to the law that prohibits the import of fossils from China into the US as long as custom forms are accurate. Still Life Fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SULLY Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 Welcome to the boards Ryan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 23 minutes ago, SULLY said: Welcome to the boards Ryan! 5 hours ago, TheClawGuy said: It’s either Jeholornis or Jixiangornis. Those are avian feet, not Dromaeosaurid. And this has been verified Just FYI, ... this is a 2 year old topic. Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClawGuy Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 12 hours ago, Fossildude19 said: Just FYI, ... this is a 2 year old topic. It doesn’t matter how old a topic is, correct information should be posted to educate all collectors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClawGuy Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 13 hours ago, steelhead9 said: Could someone send me a link to the law that prohibits the import of fossils from China into the US as long as custom forms are accurate. https://www.aaps-journal.org/journal/Fossil-Laws.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelhead9 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 1 hour ago, TheClawGuy said: https://www.aaps-journal.org/journal/Fossil-Laws.html Thank you for the link. This article, however, discusses the illegality of exporting fossils from China and Mongolia under the laws of those respective countries, which we all know is illegal. My understanding is we have no specific laws concerning the enforcement of these countries laws here in the USA, and no laws prohibiting the import of fossils once they have left these countries. I don't ask this as a moral issue, as that is for each individual to decide for themselves, but again, I ask for a link to a US law prohibiting the import of Chinese or Mongolian fossils. Still Life Fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 1 hour ago, TheClawGuy said: It doesn’t matter how old a topic is, correct information should be posted to educate all collectors You are quite right. Good show. I was merely pointing out the fact, in case you hadn't noticed, and to make sure people answering the topic after you were aware as well. Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClawGuy Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 1 hour ago, steelhead9 said: Thank you for the link. This article, however, discusses the illegality of exporting fossils from China and Mongolia under the laws of those respective countries, which we all know is illegal. My understanding is we have no specific laws concerning the enforcement of these countries laws here in the USA, and no laws prohibiting the import of fossils once they have left these countries. I don't ask this as a moral issue, as that is for each individual to decide for themselves, but again, I ask for a link to a US law prohibiting the import of Chinese or Mongolian fossils. It’s 100% against federal custom laws. There have been several people prosecuted and sentenced to jail for this. You can’t get sent to jail without being convicted of breaking an existing law, this isn’t the Wild West lol. Doesn’t mean that you can’t find it on a simple google search that it doesn’t exist. Call your local Homeland Security, Customs, or FBI office and ask them... I’m sure they would be happy to tell you the code and to also take down all of your information lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClawGuy Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Fossildude19 said: You are quite right. Good show. I was merely pointing out the fact, in case you hadn't noticed, and to make sure people answering the topic after you were aware as well. I noticed but it popped up in a search result and noticed that it’s ID was never corrected. Kinda surprising with all of the knowledgeable big collectors on these forums. I’m surprised they concluded this was Dromaeosaurid to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 Thank you, for chiming in on this, and correcting the ID. Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClawGuy Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, Fossildude19 said: Thank you, for chiming in on this, and correcting the ID. Always happy to help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelhead9 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 7 hours ago, TheClawGuy said: It’s 100% against federal custom laws. There have been several people prosecuted and sentenced to jail for this. You can’t get sent to jail without being convicted of breaking an existing law, this isn’t the Wild West lol. Doesn’t mean that you can’t find it on a simple google search that it doesn’t exist. Call your local Homeland Security, Customs, or FBI office and ask them... I’m sure they would be happy to tell you the code and to also take down all of your information lol. No one to my knowledge has ever been convicted in this country for importing fossils from China or Mongolia. All the convictions have been for falsifying customs documents. Even in the most famous case of the tarbosaur the only charge and conviction was a customs violation. Nothing to do with fossils. I would not advise anyone to go against the federal government, but I am still curious as to what Us laws prohibit the import of fossils from China and Mongolia. Still Life Fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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