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westcoast

Citizen science at its very best!! What a fantastic idea. I wish I had something to contribute but I will certainly follow this thread with interest.

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Troodon

Nice thread - needed but I'm not sure we have enough information from publications to really make a positive determination on vertebrae in our collections with a few exceptions.   Most should be labeled theropod indet.   Trying to even assign it to a family other than cervical Sigilmassasaurus is difficult.   What I find most difficult is differentiating between Theropod and Croc and most sellers lean toward Theropod.

 

If not listed hard for me to make any determination

NR1 for example - it may be a Sigilmassasaurus but unless you can compare your specimen to other large theropods it may be something else

NR3 - Spinosaurid indet.

NR5 - Agree

NR7 - Agree

NR11 - Agree but could be a caudal

NR13 - Theropod indet

NR14 to 16 - Agree

NR 18 - Agree

NR20 - I believe is a Crocodile

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Haravex

Thank you for posting this any chance we could get that description of carchardonosaurus by stromer?

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Max-fossils

What I have to say: get this pinned!!! @Fossildude19

 

Great topic, thanks a lot for posting.

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LordTrilobite

I've updated the first post with Kemkemia. a crocodile known only by a single caudal vertebra.

 

And I'm glad to see more photos already!

20 minutes ago, Troodon said:

Nice thread - needed but I'm not sure we have enough information from publications to really make a positive determination on vertebrae in our collections with a few exceptions.   Most should be labeled theropod indet.   Trying to even assign it to a family other than cervical Sigilmassasaurus is difficult.   What I find most difficult is differentiating between Theropod and Croc and most sellers lean toward Theropod.

 

If not listed hard for me to make any determination

NR1 for example - it may be a Sigilmassasaurus but unless you can compare your specimen to other large theropods it may be something else

NR3 - Spinosaurid indet.

NR5 - Agree

NR7 - Agree

NR11 - Agree but could be a caudal

NR13 - Theropod indet

NR14 to 16 - Agree

NR 18 - Agree

NR20 - I believe is a Crocodile

Nr. 1 and 3 are both pretty much identical to two specimens in the Evers paper on Sigilmassasaurus. Nr.1 being almost comparable to the holotype of Spinosaurus maroccanus, which is considered a synonym of Sigilmassasaurus brevicollis. And I agree with that. Nr.3 is comparable to a vertebra that Evers tentatively attributes to Sigilmassasaurus. So I feel confident in saying that nr.1 is definitely Sigilmassasaurus and nr.3 is probably referable to this genus as well.

Nr. 11 caudal? that's interesting I'll have to investigate that.

Nr. 20 All the dinosaur experts at the museum say this a caudal vert from a dinosaur. And as I said, it's also hollow in places. Though I will definitely look into the possibility of it being croc.

Thanks for the comments!

 

15 minutes ago, Troodon said:

Some of my Vertebrae

Turtle?  Cervical 5" long  (12.7 cm)

Unknown4.thumb.jpg.b9a61793b842288309657814d716bac6.jpgUnknown4a.thumb.jpg.ba7cad930a6b0e26593ede25d4456b22.jpg

 

Caudal of unknown Theropod

ZThero2.thumb.jpg.cc038c7c3070ae90c7b942915cd472a7.jpg

 

Croc or Theropod?

Caudal Vertebra

ZVert1A.thumb.jpg.9190abb06389602f0bf199e4f24e3881.jpgZVert1.thumb.jpg.b7a30d0048abf024a1d7a4b9c764c5b5.jpg

That possible turtle vert looks pretty interesting. How sure are you of this ID? Because if you're pretty sure I can add photos to the first post for reference. If that's okay of course.

 

Your second vertebra of an unknown theropod looks pretty similar to my nr. 15 caudal vert. Though yours is more complete, both seem to have a ridge running along the sides of the centrum (it might not be very visible in my photo but it looks pretty similar to yours imo).

 

That third vertebra reminds me of that caudal vert of Kemkemia, which is a croc. So I would lean more towards croc than theropod.

12 minutes ago, Haravex said:

Thank you for posting this any chance we could get that description of carchardonosaurus by stromer?

Sadly I don't have it. So I only posted the Carcharodontosaurus vert that was in Evers' paper about Sigilmassasaurus. Apparently that ID was based on the original description of Stromer.

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Troodon
8 minutes ago, LordTrilobite said:

I've updated the first post with Kemkemia. a crocodile known only by a single caudal vertebra.

 

And I'm glad to see more photos already!

Nr. 1 and 3 are both pretty much identical to two specimens in the Evers paper on Sigilmassasaurus. Nr.1 being almost comparable to the holotype of Spinosaurus maroccanus, which is considered a synonym of Sigilmassasaurus brevicollis. And I agree with that. Nr.3 is comparable to a vertebra that Evers tentatively attributes to Sigilmassasaurus. So I feel confident in saying that nr.1 is definitely Sigilmassasaurus and nr.3 is probably referable to this genus as well.

Nr. 11 caudal? that's interesting I'll have to investigate that.

Nr. 20 All the dinosaur experts at the museum say this a caudal vert from a dinosaur. And as I said, it's also hollow in places. Though I will definitely look into the possibility of it being croc.

Thanks for the comments!

 

That possible turtle vert looks pretty interesting. How sure are you of this ID? Because if you're pretty sure I can add photos to the first post for reference. If that's okay of course.

 

Your second vertebra of an unknown theropod looks pretty similar to my nr. 15 caudal vert. Though yours is more complete, both seem to have a ridge running along the sides of the centrum (it might not be very visible in my photo but it looks pretty similar to yours imo).

 

That third vertebra reminds me of that caudal vert of Kemkemia, which is a croc. So I would lean more towards croc than theropod.

 

 

First vert, not sure at all was sold to me as a pterosaur:) by knowledgeable people. 

Second vert, agree

That third vert could be a Kemkemia, I've looked at it before but other than the location of the spine the other features are different and we only have the one in the holotype to compare against.  However would lean more toward croc than theropod,

 

 

 

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LordTrilobite

Well naturally it would be a little different from Kemkemia since your 3rd vertebra has lateral processes. So it's further up the tail in position, while the holotype of Kemkemia looks to be pretty far down the tail.

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Troodon

I said that N11 could be caudal and although neural canal is not as wide as yours it widens closer to the hip.  Struthie. 

IMG_0584.thumb.jpg.d420803480f6c1ffcd1ff28303e64ab1.jpg

 

 I believe your last vert is crock because the spine should be flat it has ribs in it somewhat similiar to the photo.  Also the Centrum is bowed (arched) typical of croc's. 

 

DSC_0257.thumb.jpg.52f0a46edc8f32beb3522835269200ce.jpg

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LordTrilobite

Hm, that is interesting. I'll look into it.

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Troodon

Took some quick pictures of my one armed croc vert. Out of focus  Phone pic...will send some better ones next week, holiday week, traveling.

20171121_121419_20171121123351373.jpg.b041cab047e6a200acdf3c8290999499.jpg20171121_121429_20171121123608116.jpg.4ea311d256d59644ef2cd1ae28c515b3.jpg20171121_121438_20171121123315542.jpg.da375252c47a71cf9d5b857ec5d53951.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

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JohnBrewer

Great thread Olof. 

 

Ive got a couple of what I think are theropod caudal verts, they’re at work so will photograph them when I’m in next but I do have a spino at home which I’ll post later today. 

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Haravex

My contribution to this thread i've gone with most of them having too little characteristics to id, but maybe can add something to the understanding of vertebrae material from the kem kem region.

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Haravex

20170925_184817.jpg

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20170925_184927.jpg

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Troodon

Took some additional pictures of the cf Kemkemia vert.  Neural canal its smaller still and faces of the two ends on the Kemkimia are not parallel, they are on my specimen.  Still unclear to me.

 

 

Spinosaurid caudal.  Largest image I could find from new Spino paper

 

post-10955-0-35055600-1410473402.jpg.e451a6943d70036899cebd253a964464.jpg

 

20171121_125848.jpg

20171121_125814.jpg

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Haravex

The smallest one was suggested by troodon to be turtle or reptile might be nice to add to your id guide.

20171121_204613.jpg

20171121_204650.jpg

20171121_204731.jpg

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20171121_204847.jpg

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20171121_204324.jpg

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Troodon
11 minutes ago, Haravex said:

The smallest one was suggested by troodon to be turtle or reptile might be nice to add to your id guide.

20171121_204613.jpg

20171121_204650.jpg

20171121_204731.jpg

20171121_204751.jpg

20171121_204826.jpg

20171121_204847.jpg

Looks like croc

11 minutes ago, Haravex said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Haravex

ok that one could be added to the post i will try and get a better more overview friendly image of it tomorrow and better quality trying to take pictures at night time is a bit hard.

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Troodon

You may want to consider using Fruitbats library to see whats PDF's are available from South America or other localities where similar families exist.  Here is one I looked at and a couple of uncropped pages of a Carch from Argentina

 

Coria, R.A. and P.J. Currie (2006). A new carcharodontosaurid (Dinosauria, Theropoda) from the Upper Cretaceous of Argentina. Geodiversitas, 28(1).

 

Screenshot_2017-11-21-14-01-14.thumb.png.7e78bc85e2a7479cb337698b29f6bdc8.pngScreenshot_2017-11-21-14-01-45.thumb.png.8d1027f90a2be5497a27e21405aa39ff.png

 

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abyssunder

Pterosauria

 

Azhdarchidae Nessov, 1984
Azhdarchidae indet.

 

Material: Mid-cervical vertebrae (CMN 50801 and LINHM 014)

 

5a1498c6ca181_Fig.2.thumb.jpg.c2891b4b42f5d492e91da27ad600a984.jpg5a1498ca25420_Fig.3.thumb.jpg.ea408371bd0fe67fcc04eb5fb4977bcb.jpg5a1498ce57ea9_Fig.4.thumb.jpg.d11c7af847c8e93ae26ceddd456a92b5.jpg

 

reference: T. Rodrigues. 2011. New pterosaur specimens from the Kem Kem beds (Upper Cretaceous, Cenomanian) of Morocco. Rivista Italiana di Paleontologia e Stratigrafia, vol. 117, no. 1: 149-160

 

 

Azhdarchidae gen. et sp. indet.

 

Material. A fragment of the posterior termination of a midseries cervical vertebra (FSAC-KK 34); (Figures 5 and 6, Table 2).
Locality. Aferdou N’Chaft, near Begaa, Province d’Errachidia, Morocco, 30. 53. 51 230 N 3. 52. 13 420 E.
Horizon. Kem Kem beds, Cenomanian [32].

 

5a14a29e71284_Figure5.thumb.jpg.6872bdaec6f7e93d154438a0cf9370fc.jpg5a14a2863250c_Figure6.thumb.jpg.5e04e8c65e6a9af3aabb24fd32817038.jpg

reference: N. Ibrahim et al. 2010. A New Pterosaur (Pterodactyloidea: Azhdarchidae) from the Upper Cretaceous of Morocco. PLoS ONE 5(5): 1-11

 

"Other azhdarchid material from the Kem Kem Beds. In addition to the jaw remains assigned to Alanqa and the fragmentary cervical, described above, several additional fossils from the Kem Kem beds have been identified as azhdarchid. These include a complete mid-series cervical [25], a large humerus, another cervical vertebra and a fragmentary rostrum [63]. We are also aware of further undescribed specimens including a well preserved cervical vertebra that appear to be azhdarchid. Alanqa is still insufficiently well known for us to be able to demonstrate that some, possibly all, of this postcranial material belongs to this
pterosaur, thus no formal assignments are made here. However, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, we think it reasonable to assume that all these azhdarchid remains likely pertain to Alanqa. "

 

 

 

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abyssunder

Sauropoda Marsh, 1878

Neosauropoda Bonaparte, 1986
Titanosauriformes Salgado, Coria, and Calvo, 1997
Titanosauria Bonaparte and Coria, 1993
Lithostrotia Upchurch, Barrett, and Dodson, 2004

 

Material. FSAC-KK 7000, an isolated middle caudal vertebra accessioned in the collections of the Université Hassan II (Faculté des Sciences Aïn Chock), Casablanca, Morocco.
Age and horizon. “Kem Kem beds,” middle Cretaceous (possibly Albian to lower Cenomanian). The specimen was surfacecollected by a local man and had likely eroded out of the lower Kem Kem unit. No associated remains were found despite an extensive search of the vicinity.
Locality. Gara Sbaa area, Er Rachidia Province, Morocco.

 

Ibrahimetal2016-evidenceofderivedtitanosaurinmKKemKembedsMorocco.thumb.jpg.5899fb5c3848b4db1977d32bdfdac376.jpg

reference: N. Ibrahim et al. 2016. Evidence of a derived titanosaurian (Dinosauria, Sauropoda) in the “Kem Kem beds” of Morocco, with comments on sauropod paleoecology in the Cretaceous of Africa. In A. Khosla, S.G. Lucas (eds), Cretaceous Period: Biotic Diversity and Biogeography. vol. 71, New Mexico Museum of Natural History & Science, Albuquerque, New Mexico, pp. 149-159.

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JohnBrewer

Bad quality images (phone) of my spino vert. It needs a lot of work on it and there’s lots reconstruction that’s bad to say the least but it was ridiculously cheap from a very well regarded dealer.

 

361CF1AB-604B-4129-B293-93172A5D01B7.thumb.jpeg.578cf215aef4d16d4fbd7f58be782ed4.jpeg539D42AC-C0C9-4913-B851-1AB970E79FF5.thumb.jpeg.18e690be06fa93821c8c9b6c791d9403.jpegA20A2333-8FCD-483D-9DC3-344E4AE098A3.thumb.jpeg.9df0f0fbd388463e62d3761d310cd9f5.jpeg 

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