Kem Kem chunkosaur ID

[Aurelius]

These three bits came in the post today. They're a bit of a puzzle, and came without any definite ID. I wonder if anyone might have an idea what they are? I think at least two ought to be identifiable, but I've had no luck so far in trying to compare them to illustrations or photos of any dinosaur bones.

 

Bone 1

No idea what this is, but hopefully the distinctive shape will make some sort of identification possible. It was tentatively described as a piece of pelvis.

 

 

Here's a very quick and dirty photogrammetry 3D scan of this bone, which might help you to get a better idea of the shape.

 

 

Bone 2 - This is huge and, as you can see, still needs some prep to reveal all of the surfaces. 

 

 

 

 

Finally, this very flat piece of bone, which I don't hold out much hope of an ID for! It's hollow, but that's about all I can tell you.

 

 

@Troodon and @LordTrilobite - hope you don't mind me tagging you as two of the most knowledgeable people on this material.

 

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

Many thanks.

 

[Troodon]

Need to study the first one some more but could be a skull element.  The second one looks like a leg bone, could be theropod can tell better after its cleaned.  Last one ? All the edges seem broken but it's not unreasonable to think pelvis.  LT has a better eye than I do for chunkasaurus.

[Haravex]

Educated guess on the second piece looks to me to be hollow enough to belong to carchardontosaurus and the first piece I agree with troodon has a good chance to be a skull element.

[Aurelius]

14 minutes ago, Troodon said:

Need to study the first one some more but could be a skull element.  The second one looks like a leg bone, could be theropod can tell better after its cleaned.  Last one ? All the edges seem broken but it's not unreasonable to think pelvis.  LT has a better eye than I do for chunkasaurus.

 

Thanks I was really hoping that the first one might be a piece of skull, but I simply don't have the knowledge when it comes to these kinds of fossils. 

[LordTrilobite]

I agree with Troodon.

 

That first one does seem promising. I saw this one online as well, but I didn't seen any good recognisable features so I passed on it. Though it is of nice bone quality. So I don't immediately recognise the shape either. The 3D model definitely helps to show the shape though. It seems pretty distinctive though.

That "underside" of this piece. It looks like it's broken. Is this the interior of the bone or is this still close to the cortex bone? Perhaps having some more photos of that side might help. The "broken" point in the middle seems a bit rounded. I'm wondering if this is due to wear, or possibly if this might be an unfused suture. If so, that might help place the bone in a skull. Again, more photos would help.

 

The second bone does seem like it could be part of a limb. Should be interesting to see what it reveals after prep. Haravex also makes a good point. With a bone that size, and it being hollow, that eliminates a lot of animals. Spinosaurus has a lot denser bones, and so do crocs. So Carcharodontosaurid might indeed be an option. Though I would prep first before jumping to conclusions.

 

I don't think the third one will yield much information. I'd say that's a typical chunkosaurus.

[Troodon]

I agree with the others was also thinking Carch because of size but like to wait till you cleaned it up. Definitely not Spino

[Aurelius]

3 hours ago, LordTrilobite said:

That "underside" of this piece. It looks like it's broken. Is this the interior of the bone or is this still close to the cortex bone? Perhaps having some more photos of that side might help.

 

 

Bits on the right-hand side seems to be the original surface, but the rest is broken. Whether abraded or sheared off, I don't know.

 

3 hours ago, LordTrilobite said:

The "broken" point in the middle seems a bit rounded. I'm wondering if this is due to wear, or possibly if this might be an unfused suture. If so, that might help place the bone in a skull. Again, more photos would help.

 

Here's one of that particular area. I'd be happy to provide further photos if it'd be helpful.

 

Thanks!

[LordTrilobite]

31 minutes ago, Aurelius said:

Bits on the right-hand side seems to be the original surface, but the rest is broken. Whether abraded or sheared off, I don't know.

Here's one of that particular area. I'd be happy to provide further photos if it'd be helpful.

 

That rough side does seem like it might be mostly worn outside. So the original bone probably wasn't much thicker.

 

For the broken point I actually meant another part. I meant the pointed edge on the right in the first photo.

[Aurelius]

15 hours ago, LordTrilobite said:

 

That rough side does seem like it might be mostly worn outside. So the original bone probably wasn't much thicker.

 

For the broken point I actually meant another part. I meant the pointed edge on the right in the first photo.

 

Ah, sorry - is this the right bit?

 

 

I've done a bit of prep on the limb bone with a scalpel and some dental picks, and it's looking quite tantalizing. But I'll need to get out the mechanical tools to finish it off.

 

 

[LordTrilobite]

5 minutes ago, Aurelius said:

 

Ah, sorry - is this the right bit?

Yes that's what I meant. Hm it looks like that end is just broken. Don't see any evidence of a suture.

[Haravex]

Same i had a look for suture's on the first piece and couldn't see any indication of them present. As for the second piece i'm looking forward to seeing this piece prepped out and would laugh so hard if it turned out to be the end of my femur 

[Troodon]

Ha ha definitely has that femur look

[Haravex]

I mean the chance is beyond slim but you could imagine why i might think it just for a split second. 

[Troodon]

Did you both buy it from the same source?

[Haravex]

I bought mine from a seller in morocco, I'm 99 percent certain aurelius got it form a popular auction site, however that being said i know the seller I got mine from sells to the same person who was running that auction so maybe?

[Dewbunny]

Ok.

Newbie,be gentle...

 

Any chance bone #2 is a tarsometatarsus?

 

Not sure if that would correlate to dinosaurs or Kem Kem, but looks leggie.

 

[LordTrilobite]

1 hour ago, Haravex said:

I mean the chance is beyond slim but you could imagine why i might think it just for a split second. 

 It happened to me once. Once I bought a partial Mosasaur jaw, a month later I bought another piece from the same seller. The second piece fit like a glove, very clearly the same specimen. And I have heard of it happening once with two collectors in the Netherlands who both had a piece of Megaloceros antler from the North Sea. It turned out in that case they both had a piece of the same individual. Can you imagine the odds? Those bones were fished up from the bottom of the sea and still found their way back.

So yeah, a slim chance. But it's certainly possible. Since you're both UK based, perhaps it's an idea to meet up with each other.

 

54 minutes ago, Dewbunny said:

Ok.

Newbie,be gentle...

 

Any chance bone #2 is a tarsometatarsus?

 

Not sure if that would correlate to dinosaurs or Kem Kem, but looks leggie.

 

I think that piece might be a bit big for any part of a foot. Sure there are some massive Theropods in Kem Kem, but even so, that might be stretching a bit.

[Haravex]

I'll wait until it is prepped a little more but yes defiantly an option.

[Aurelius]

On 12/7/2017 at 10:20 PM, Haravex said:

I bought mine from a seller in morocco, I'm 99 percent certain aurelius got it form a popular auction site, however that being said i know the seller I got mine from sells to the same person who was running that auction so maybe?

 

That is interesting! I'm hoping to prep mine a bit more later (as long as the dremel works on it - unfortunately the compressor is out of action), so stay tuned.

[Haravex]

Yes the dremel should work fine if not takes a bit longer from what I have heard.

Thanks matt 

[Aurelius]

1 hour ago, Haravex said:

Yes the dremel should work fine if not takes a bit longer from what I have heard.

Thanks matt 

 

I gave it a go, but wasn't successful I'm afraid. I can't get in the workshop at present, so I just put it on the kitchen table, soaked the matrix with water to suppress dust, and tried to see if it'd flake off, if I could get the dremel into the layer separating the matrix from the bone - but I didn't have any luck. I'll have to wait until the workshop is operational again, unfortunately.

[Aurelius]

I finally, finally got into my workshop today and prepped the possible Carcharodontosaurus bone. It was a lot harder than I'd anticipated, and the matrix was incredibly sticky in places. However, with some effort, and very orange hands, I managed to get it finished.

 

Does this help to confirm an ID on this one? Any help much appreciated.

 

 

[Haravex]

Can we get a picture if the end and other side if possible?

[Aurelius]

Sure, here's some more - hope they do the trick.

 

 

[Aurelius]