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Moozillion

Is this turtle fossil real?

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Moozillion

In 1996 I was working in New Zealand and purchased a turtle fossil at a gem and mineral show. I was told it was from the Gobi Desert, and that's absolutely all I know about it. It weighs 9.5 pounds/ 4.3 kg; is 10 inches/25 cm long and 9 inches/23 cm wide at the widest point. 

I've got several photos, and now I just have to figure out how to post them...I am not the most computer literate person..IMG_8965.thumb.JPG.5e77f5583306b26b40cb46bf9a2114a1.JPG

 

 

 

It looks like I can only upload 1 photo per page? I'll try to post more...

 

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Moozillion

This photo is from the front, where it appears that part of a vertebra is visible?

IMG_8966.thumb.JPG.ddf599d1a39227dc75666ac91847ae2c.JPG

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Tidgy's Dad

Hi, Bea! :)

Oh, I do so hope it's real! 

I think so, but the experts will be along soon, hopefully. 

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Moozillion

The edges are pretty beaten up, and the black carapace material is just a little crumbly. 

 

 

IMG_8970.JPG

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Moozillion
Just now, Tidgy's Dad said:

Hi, Bea! :)

Oh, I do so hope it's real! 

I think so, but the experts will be along soon, hopefully. 

Thanks, Adam! I hope so too! But I have no idea how to protect it from degradation.

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Tidgy's Dad
Just now, Moozillion said:

Thanks, Adam! I hope so too! But I have no idea how to protect it from degradation.

Me  neither, but you've come to the right place for help and advice. 

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ynot

Looks real to Me. Can You post pictures of the underside?

@Ptychodus04 may have some ideas about preservation.

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Moozillion
16 minutes ago, ynot said:

Looks real to Me. Can You post pictures of the underside?

@Ptychodus04 may have some ideas about preservation.

The underside appears to be just a chunk of rock:

 

 

IMG_8971.JPG

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Moozillion
2 minutes ago, Ptychodus04 said:

If it’s a fake, it’s a really good one. One test to check is to heat up a pin with a lighter until red hot. Then touch to the “bone”. If the fossil is a fake, the hot needle will usually melt into the forgery. 

 

Once the authenticity city is determined, procure some PVA, Paraloid, or Butvar. Mix 1 part plastic to 50 parts acetone and submerge the specimen. Once the bubbles stop, remove the fossil and let dry sitting on cardboard. This will preserve it indefinitely.

Thank you, Ptychodus04. :)

 

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-Andy-

It's real. The underside of my turtle fossil is a chunk of rock too.

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Moozillion
1 hour ago, -Andy- said:

It's real. The underside of my turtle fossil is a chunk of rock too.

Thank you, Andy.!:)

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Crazyhen

Oilshale is right.  It is an Anosteira.  Other than Anosteira maomingensis, there are a few other Anosteira species in China, including Anosteira mongoliensis from Mongolia, and so it is not impossible that this is a specimen of Anosteira mongoliensis from Gobi.

 

http://www.palaeontologia.pan.pl/Archive/1971_25_131_144_22_24.pdf

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Bobby Rico

@Moozillion I think your beautiful  turtle shell is real and if it is crumbling you do need to treat it sooner than later in the method that @Ptychodus04 suggested.  

 

Stunning fossil:envy:

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Bobby Rico

@Moozillion just a thought I would normally not suggest reposting fossil again but for the future TFF members to enjoy looking at this beautiful specimen. This post is very well established, very informative and your turtle shell would be a most welcome addition to the show case.

 

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oilshale
6 hours ago, Crazyhen said:

Oilshale is right.  It is an Anosteira.  Other than Anosteira maomingensis, there are a few other Anosteira species in China, including Anosteira mongoliensis from Mongolia, and so it is not impossible that this is a specimen of Anosteira mongoliensis from Gobi.

 

http://www.palaeontologia.pan.pl/Archive/1971_25_131_144_22_24.pdf

Correct, there are also other locations and other A. species. A. maomingensis is quite common, I've been there several times and the rock looks exactly like this. 

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oldtimer

Very nice find that you have had for some time now. 

As others have said it is real. Preserve it so it will not degrade any more.

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Moozillion
1 hour ago, oldtimer said:

Very nice find that you have had for some time now. 

As others have said it is real. Preserve it so it will not degrade any more.

Thank you "old-timer!":)

 

4 hours ago, Bobby Rico said:

@Moozillion just a thought I would normally not suggest reposting fossil again but for the future TFF members to enjoy looking at this beautiful specimen. This post is very well established, very informative and your turtle shell would be a most welcome addition to the show case.

 

Thanks, Bobby, but I don't know how or where to do that...

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caldigger

Click on that link above and post it on the thread.

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Moozillion
11 hours ago, Ptychodus04 said:

If it’s a fake, it’s a really good one. One test to check is to heat up a pin with a lighter until red hot. Then touch to the “bone”. If the fossil is a fake, the hot needle will usually melt into the forgery. 

 

Once the authenticity city is determined, procure some PVA, Paraloid, or Butvar. Mix 1 part plastic to 50 parts acetone and submerge the specimen. Once the bubbles stop, remove the fossil and let dry sitting on cardboard. This will preserve it indefinitely.

 

If this batch of questions is in the wrong place, please direct me to where I should post it. Thanks!:)

 

I am not "handy" at all, and am a little afraid of toxic chemicals. (Just FYI, I am a 63 year old semi-retired female who always worked at a desk job) And, obviously, I've never done this before and would really REALLY HATE TO botch the job! Is it really just as simple as dissolving the PVA or Paraloid or Butvar in acetone, wait, remove and let dry?

 

In mixing the "Parts" are you referring to WEIGHT?

What sort of container should I use- will it melt/dissolve a plastic tub?

Obviously, I need to wear gloves! Maybe eye protection? 

It must be done outside- is temperature a factor in this process: dissolving and later drying? We're in the middle of winter here.

Since I would be doing it outside, would I need some sort of respirator? (I"ve been looking at a lot of google sites and most of what I'm seeing involves chemistry in big industrial plants...)

I'm guessing that when I take it out of the tub, I should tip it different ways to let the excess stuff drip off?

Won't the cardboard it's sitting on get permanently stuck to it?

Do I just let the left over stuff dry in the tub and then throw the whole thing away?

 

I don't mean to bombard you with questions. I am just clueless and don't want to ruin something special. I looked at some of the threads on preserving specimens on this forum, but I must not have found the ones that apply to me...

 

 

 

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caldigger

Great line of questioning and very viable questions. Same concerns I was thinking as I read through the thread.

What I would do since you have had it this long (22 years) is to put it away where it can sit undisturbed until the weather does warm up. Then you will have the answers you need and can properly prepare for this procedure and not jump into it hastily.

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Moozillion
39 minutes ago, caldigger said:

Great line of questioning and very viable questions. Same concerns I was thinking as I read through the thread.

What I would do since you have had it this long (22 years) is to put it away where it can sit undisturbed until the weather does warm up. Then you will have the answers you need and can properly prepare for this procedure and not jump into it hastily.

Thank you SO MUCH, cal digger!!!!!!!:)

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ynot
46 minutes ago, Moozillion said:

I just don't want to ruin something special.

Good way to be.

A few questions for You--

Is it losing any of the material?

What makes You think it needs to be stabilized?

Has it already been stabilized before You acquired it?

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Moozillion
1 minute ago, ynot said:

Good way to be.

A few questions for You--

Is it losing any of the material?

What makes You think it needs to be stabilized?

Has it already been stabilized before You acquired it?

It does NOT appear to have been stabilized. Every time I move it (which is about 1ce every 6 months) there are black crumbs that have come from the scutes. When I picked it up to take the photos to post here, one of the scutes made a slight creaking sound- which suggests to me that part of it must have moved, therefore is unstable. 

caldigger has suggested I put it away someplace safe until the weather warms up and I have time to learn more before stabilizing it. So that's my current plan. 

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