Jump to content
Doraaman

Thoughts? Bite Marks?

Recommended Posts

Doraaman

Possible predations? Thoughts? 

083C78A2-A559-4F4A-9EE5-A4DE034D047E.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Doraaman

2EEBC87D-BF91-4B54-A469-2B02207651A0.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Doraaman

2FAEFB15-8265-4064-997C-198D0620099D.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
WhodamanHD

If that’s not predation, Mother Nature is really doing her best to confuse me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nimravis

Looks like it to me or that animal ran into a Prehistoric Outboard Motor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GeschWhat

Sure looks like it to me. Awesome find!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
snolly50

Absolutely. I can think of no other plausible genesis of the gouges. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Carl

Same here: Mayhem indeed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Plax
11 hours ago, Nimravis said:

Looks like it to me or that animal ran into a Prehistoric Outboard Motor.

or a modern one! "Bites" look very sharp for such a well rounded chunk of bone. Not saying it isn't predation just saying I don't know how ya'll are so sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nimravis
15 minutes ago, Plax said:

or a modern one! "Bites" look very sharp for such a well rounded chunk of bone. Not saying it isn't predation just saying I don't know how ya'll are so sure.

I am not saying that I am positive, but it does have the telltale signs of predation. By study predation marks in recent bones, a correlation and hypothesis can be drawn on this piece.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
oldtimer

Very nicfe find.  It looks like teeth marks to me.  Either way it is cool.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Plax
2 hours ago, Nimravis said:

I am not saying that I am positive, but it does have the telltale signs of predation. By study predation marks in recent bones, a correlation and hypothesis can be drawn on this piece.

I hear you. Am not saying anyone is wrong about this I just can't quantify the characteristic that makes this predation. I wouldn't doubt it for a second, for instance, if the bone was dug from an insitu situation and those were ancient epibionts. If it was found in a shallow marine setting and those are modern epibionts I'd say it points to prop marks though it could still be ancient predation. Am reminded of native american artifacts found in cultivated fields with plow strikes. If the consensus is predation I'll go along with that!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Carl
1 hour ago, Plax said:

I hear you. Am not saying anyone is wrong about this I just can't quantify the characteristic that makes this predation. I wouldn't doubt it for a second, for instance, if the bone was dug from an insitu situation and those were ancient epibionts. If it was found in a shallow marine setting and those are modern epibionts I'd say it points to prop marks though it could still be ancient predation. Am reminded of native american artifacts found in cultivated fields with plow strikes. If the consensus is predation I'll go along with that!

I hear you, Plax. I guess they could be manmade somehow, but either way I guess we can say that the bone has suffered sharp trauma. The burial context would need to be clarified for more confidence either way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tidgy's Dad

Nice piece! :)

I think predation marks is the most likely possibility. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
WhodamanHD
10 hours ago, Plax said:

rounded chunk of bone.

Perhaps the bites were even deeper originally and when the bone was worn the sharp ends were left. Not trying to discount you by the way, just throwing out an explanation:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Troodon

Always a difficult question to answer even where it seems obvious.  Very cool bone.

What has me puzzled is that some of the gouges are wide, flat and if it was due to predation my sense would be sharper ones since the odds of multiple bits in the same location are slim.  Looking for more V shaped gouges not flat ones.  I know it's predator dependent but is there any evidence of serrations marks in the gouges

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Plax
17 hours ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

Nice piece! :)

I think predation marks is the most likely possibility. 

Not disagreeing with you Tidgy's Dad but why are you saying it is the most likely possibility? Still trying to get in my head what characteristics make it so. As I've said before I don't know that these are prop marks I just can't see why they couldn't be. I'm not trying to be right or wrong as my opinion is open to the evidence. I hope that Doraaman replies to this post saying it was dug from an undisturbed shell bed in the bank of a river.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tidgy's Dad

I agree the in situ information would help. 

But I have seen very similar predation marks on fossil bone, and these do appear to have some evidence of infilling, possibly calcite, that would likely have occured over the years after death.  

Other causes of these may indeed be possible, but i still feel that bite marks are the most likely explanation. 

But I am, of course, often wrong. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GeschWhat
1 hour ago, Troodon said:

I know it's predator dependent but is there any evidence of serrations marks in the gouges

Good point. It would be interesting to see it cleaned up and put under a microscope. Of course photos can be misleading, and this could be just the calcite deposit, but this looks a little like serrations.

Possible Serrations.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Troodon
14 minutes ago, GeschWhat said:

Good point. It would be interesting to see it cleaned up and put under a microscope. Of course photos can be misleading, and this could be just the calcite deposit, but this looks a little like serrations.

 

Good eye but like you said needs to be cleaned up and looked under some magnifications.  Hopefully Doraaman can shed some light on this and where it was found.   I run across this with dinosaur bones, there you are looking for punctures and serration marks to be defining versus just lateral gouges unless its obvious.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Plax
3 hours ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

I agree the in situ information would help. 

But I have seen very similar predation marks on fossil bone, and these do appear to have some evidence of infilling, possibly calcite, that would likely have occured over the years after death.  

Other causes of these may indeed be possible, but i still feel that bite marks are the most likely explanation. 

But I am, of course, often wrong. :D

Me too!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
abyssunder

Maybe these two can have similar bite marks.

 

083C78A2-A559-4F4A-9EE5-A4DE034D047E.jpeg.a6af4d215371f7708240b42de1e6937e.thumb.jpg.48de2b0d83548e69db047928e43b1424.jpgattakk.jpg.69fbfd5d2ce1382e21cc46b8cba034d5.jpg

comparative picture from here

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
WhodamanHD

Predation marks also tend to be slightly curved, any sign of that here?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Doraaman
On 2/22/2018 at 7:35 AM, Plax said:

Not disagreeing with you Tidgy's Dad but why are you saying it is the most likely possibility? Still trying to get in my head what characteristics make it so. As I've said before I don't know that these are prop marks I just can't see why they couldn't be. I'm not trying to be right or wrong as my opinion is open to the evidence. I hope that Doraaman replies to this post saying it was dug from an undisturbed shell bed in the bank of a river.

Found in 30’ of water. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Doraaman
On 2/22/2018 at 8:59 AM, Troodon said:

Good eye but like you said needs to be cleaned up and looked under some magnifications.  Hopefully Doraaman can shed some light on this and where it was found.   I run across this with dinosaur bones, there you are looking for punctures and serration marks to be defining versus just lateral gouges unless its obvious.

I’ll clean up and post some updates 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×