Double Mystery Brachiopod

[Dpaul7]

Today I received a special surprise at work; our magazine editor found this fossil in her yard!  A nice brachiopod, it seems!

Here are the two mysteries:

1.  WHAT TYPE of brachiopod?  (I'd be happy with FAMILY).

2.  FROM WHERE?  I was excited that she had MARINE FOSSILS on her land... but she said this was in a bunch of rock THEY BOUGHT for

landscaping purposes.  ANY ideas?  I have seen nodules like this from out west - Any opinions or guesses welcome!

[Tidgy's Dad]

I think it's an orthid, or possibly a strophomenid. 

Family is going to be very difficult, I feel. 

[Miocene_Mason]

Here is my thought process:

the rock is rounded, therefore probably worn by river or glaciers.

this was from landscaping rocks so probably not from a stream, could be from either alluvial sediment or glacial till. 

Strophomenids are found from Ordovician till the end of the devonian.

I don’t know of any devonian formations that look like this stone in the east of America (assuming it was quarried around here)

New England and Canada would have a lot of Ordovician formations, and I’ve seen a few with this kinda rock. They would also have many rivers and glacial deposits

 

all this is speculation and based on assumptions, but it could point in the right direction. Only asking the landscaping company and getting a locale would be conclusive.

[Peat Burns]

I'd go along with Orthida 

 

I see a sulcus with plications in it, I think .

 

[Dpaul7]

Thank you all!  This is the kind of discussion I was hoping for!  It helps me, because I learn something new!  As for the company, I think it was probably Lowe's or Home Depot.... I will ask to make sure.  I would go with USA for the location - probably as close as I will come!  Again, thank you all!

[Darktooth]

@WhodamanHD just curious what makes you think landscpaping rocks wouldn't come from a stream. Rocks used for landscaping come from many different sources. Including, but not limited to Rivers, streams, quarries etc.. Basically anywhere rocks can be found, which is everywhere. Also you stated that you don't know of any Devonian formations in the east that look like this rock. Have you saw all of the different type of rock, from all the different Devonian formations, especially after they have been water worn which will change the original appearance? 

[Miocene_Mason]

19 minutes ago, Darktooth said:

just curious what makes you think landscpaping rocks wouldn't come from a stream.

I just didn’t think any large stone collecting operation would go to a stream or river and scoop up rocks I thought they’d probably quarry or dig for it.

20 minutes ago, Darktooth said:

Have you saw all of the different type of rock, from all the different Devonian formations, especially after they have been water worn which will change the original appearance? 

No, but I have seen a at least 4 or 5, and a few water worn. Do you recall any that look this way? It’s a rather course grey sandstone, almost similar to the bluestone from the catskill formation but that member contains little more than fragmentary plant material. I do not claim to be some master rock identifier, and I did state this is taking on multiple assumptions and is merely guesswork. It’s just what my train of thought would be if I had this stone. 

 

1 hour ago, Dpaul7 said:

Thank you all!  This is the kind of discussion I was hoping for!  It helps me, because I learn something new!  As for the company, I think it was probably Lowe's or Home Depot.... I will ask to make sure.  I would go with USA for the location - probably as close as I will come!  Again, thank you all!

They could’ve trucked it in from anywhere, even out of country, though I’d think it would be cheaper to get it from as close as possible.

[erose]

Gravel quarries are almost always in fluvial deposits.I think that is the correct term. They may not be in the river itself but they are digging into old channel or bend deposits. They also don't tend to sell it too far from the source. 

[Plax]

erose is spot on here.

[Plax]

google got this:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Johnstown%2C+PA+gravel+suppliers&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

  You may be able to get permission to cherry pick some cobbles like this from one of these sources.

[Darktooth]

12 hours ago, WhodamanHD said:

I just didn’t think any large stone collecting operation would go to a stream or river and scoop up rocks I thought they’d probably quarry or dig for it.

No, but I have seen a at least 4 or 5, and a few water worn. Do you recall any that look this way? It’s a rather course grey sandstone, almost similar to the bluestone from the catskill formation but that member contains little more than fragmentary plant material. I do not claim to be some master rock identifier, and I did state this is taking on multiple assumptions and is merely guesswork. It’s just what my train of thought would be if I had this stone. 

 

They could’ve trucked it in from anywhere, even out of country, though I’d think it would be cheaper to get it from as close as possible.

Unfortunately I don't have time to elaborate on this because I am at work. But to answer one question, yes I have seen similar looking rocks in many different streams located in central New York which contain Devonian fossils.

[Miocene_Mason]

5 hours ago, Darktooth said:

have seen similar looking rocks in many different streams located in central New York which contain Devonian fossils.

What formations are these? I’d just like to know for future reference, learning opportunity

[Miocene_Mason]

18 hours ago, erose said:

They also don't tend to sell it too far from the source. 

Knowing this, the closest formations bearing this are the Ordovician Martinsburg FM (I don’t know anything about this one, just see it on the map), and to the west the Devonian Catskill, Foreknobs, mahantango, Harrell, brallier, and scherr. I’m pretty confident not Scherr or Mahantango. I think the Catskills typically reddish in this area (im not sure). Harrell and Brallier are dark shales. That leaves Foreknobs and Martinsburg, neither of which I know anything about. Anyone have experience in these?

[Darktooth]

4 hours ago, WhodamanHD said:

What formations are these? I’d just like to know for future reference, learning opportunity

The Devonian Period is represented here in New York by different formations and groups. The Helderberg and Tristates group are Early Devonian. The Onondaga formation, The Hamilton Group,  The Genesee Group, and The Tully formation are Middle Devonian. The Upper Devonian is the Genesee, Sonyea, West Falls, Canadaway, Conneaut and Conewango groups. Practically all of my fossil hunting and fishing activities take place in the Middle Devonian exposures of the Hamilton group. This group is divided into 4 formations- from oldest to youngest the Marcellus, Skaneatles, Ludlowville, and Moscow formations. Deep Springs and Briggs Road fossil sites are Moscow formations. Cole Hill I believe is Skaneatles though I will double check to be sure. 

[Darktooth]

Cole Hill is part of the Skaneatles Formation I just checked

[Miocene_Mason]

1 hour ago, Darktooth said:

This group is divided into 4 formations-

And mahantango, which is the only one of the Hamilton I’ve hunted in. I’ve looked at Marcellus shale, never found any fossils in it though. The only other one I’ve been in that you mentioned was the tristate. So basically, I need to get to New York!

[Dpaul7]

Some new information:  The rock is PROBABLY from Pennsylvania, Westm9oreland County area.  Arlene, our magazine editor, said she got her rocks from a LOCAL company, that sells rock, coal, etc.  That would mean the rock is probably from carboniferous era?  Some data about the area:

 

Fossil collecting in Pennsylvania- Donald M Hoskins 1964

 

The limestone exposed at the cloverleaf locality is called the Ames limestone. It was deposited during the Pennsylvanian Period about 290 million years ago. The Allegheny, Beaver and Cambria County localities all are exposures of the Ames limestone. Each is somewhat different from each other in the type of rock and fossils exposed. The rock exposed at the Westmoreland County locality is most nearly like the rock exposed at the Allegheny County locality, but the fossils are a bit different. Fewer genera of fossils occur in the Ames at this locality than at the Allegheny County exposure. The Allegheny County locality may represent part of the sea bottom farther to sea where currents were less swift and the water clearer and a more varied group of animals could live. The areas closer to shore, as may have been the case in the Cambria and Westmoreland County localities, would be subject to swifter currents
and muddier waters where fewer types of animals could live.

FOSSILS. As with many of the thin marine limestones of western Pennsylvania, crinoid fragments and small brachiopods are the most common fossil. Many very excellent specimens of Chonetes and Cruithyris may be collected here.
Brachiopods: Chonetes Crurithyris Derhya Rhipidomella
Coral: Lophophyllidium
Pelecypod: Cypricardina
Gastropod: Ianthinopsis
Crinoid Columnals

[Miocene_Mason]

Some strophomenoids are found in the Carboniferous. I can’t vouch for which formations they are in though.

[Darktooth]

On 5/8/2018 at 10:17 PM, WhodamanHD said:

And mahantango, which is the only one of the Hamilton I’ve hunted in. I’ve looked at Marcellus shale, never found any fossils in it though. The only other one I’ve been in that you mentioned was the tristate. So basically, I need to get to New York!

While the Mahantango is a member of the Hamilton Group, it is not present in New York. Some literature that pertains to the geology of New York either doesn't mention it or barely mentions it.