Branchiosaurus

[BonuFrailman]

Hey guys is this brachiosaurus real? Details below

Branchiosaurus:
Apateon pedestris
with skin shadow - rest
Age: Perm
Age approx .: 285 million years
Layer: Rotliegend
Location: Niederhausen / Germany
Fossil size approx .: 4.7 cm with curvature
Plate size approx .: 10 x 7.5 cm
The Branchiosaur was provided with a special protection for preservation.

[Fossildude19]

Looks real as far as I can tell from the small pictures.   

Often, they are coated with a preservative, and that makes up some (if not all) of the "body outline".

Regards,

[Miocene_Mason]

Could very well be, if it is it’s extremely worn. The ones I have (I think from there, have to check the label) are in a gray matrix. Maybe @hauyn888 can shed some light here

[Tidgy's Dad]

I think real.

[Bone guy]

I've seen many branchiosaurs that look similar to this. +1 for real.

[jpenn]

Real, and it's nice that it doesn't have the preservative applied.  I've seen some that looked like a smear of feces after the preservative is brushed on.

 

Is it Apateon pedestris? There are several branchiosaur species from the Rotliegend and with such a small picture I wouldn't be able to tell (and even In hand may still not, the determination is by small cranial details that require a good preservation) but the size is right for A. pedestris.

[bcfossilcollector]

Agree with the others, a real specimen and quite nice. 

[Seguidora-de-Isis]

Yes. It's definitely real. The coloration and granulation of the matrix rock is perfectly compatible with the region of Niedernhausen, Germany, where they are usually discovered.

 

But it is interesting to note here that Germans in the Niedernhausen region of Germany are addicted to applying Paraloid to their fossil amphibians, not only to preserve them, but also to create a false illusion of skin and contour of the body. But in my opinion it is just an excellent work of preparation, for the adult Apateon pedestris was measuring at most 12 cm in length, so the smaller it is, usually in that region, the poorer in details it will be, since amphibian bones are very fragile, therefore, more difficult is fossilization.

In addition, the poor preservation is also due to the fact that he did not undergo metamorphoses, but he remained all his life in larval phase, that is, always with the same appearance.
And it is for this reason, given the size, poor preservation, and the few visible morphological details, that I believe that your specimen really is an Apateon pedestris.

 

Following the example of many species of salamanders nowadays, some evidence suggests that Apateon might present neotenia, which is nothing more than the ability to reproduce in the apparently larval state.

 

So, in the summary of this opera, you can already imagine how difficult it would be to fossilize a small skeleton so weakly ossified!

 

As an example of comparison, I am posting here a specimen of Apateon pedestris 6 centimeters long that is deposited in my private collection...

 

 

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

Just now, Seguidora-de-Isis said:

Yes. It's definitely real. The coloration and granulation of the matrix rock is perfectly compatible with the region of Niedernhausen, Germany, where they are usually discovered.

 

But it is interesting to note here that Germans in the Niedernhausen region of Germany are addicted to applying Paraloid to their fossil amphibians, not only to preserve them, but also to create a false illusion of skin. But in my opinion it is just an excellent work of preparation, for the adult Apateon pedestris was measuring at most 12 cm in length, so the smaller it is, usually in that region, the poorer in details it will be, since amphibian bones are very fragile, therefore, more difficult is fossilization.

In addition, the poor preservation is also due to the fact that he did not undergo metamorphoses, but he remained all his life in larval phase, that is, always with the same appearance.
And it is for this reason, given the size, poor preservation, and the few visible morphological details, that I believe that your specimen really is an Apateon pedestris.

 

Following the example of many species of salamanders nowadays, some evidence suggests that Apateon might present neotenia, which is nothing more than the ability to reproduce in the apparently larval state.

 

So, in the summary of this opera, you can already imagine how difficult it would be to fossilize a small skeleton so weakly ossified!

 

As an example of comparison, I am posting here a specimen of Apateon pedestris 6 centimeters long that is deposited in my private collection...

 

 

 

Very nice, my friend from far way, very nice! 

[Miocene_Mason]

5 minutes ago, Seguidora-de-Isis said:

Following the example of many species of salamanders nowadays, some evidence suggests that Apateon might present neotenia, which is nothing more than the ability to reproduce in the apparently larval state.

About 8 extant. The Axolotl, The Olm, and The 6 Necturus species. I’ve Apateon almost certainly is. The differences between the two (apateon and Branchiosaurus)are subtle, mostly cranial. Here’s a picture from A Great Paper on them:

[Seguidora-de-Isis]

3 minutes ago, WhodamanHD said:

The differences between the two (apateon and Branchiosaurus)are subtle, mostly cranial...

 

It is precisely this information that I tried to pass on to our friend BonuFrailman , that is, apateon is a different species from Branchiosaurus, although both are incredibly similar. But that much salespeople do not have the slightest idea of what they are selling, so they simply link both names in the ad to aid in the search engine of the buyers.

[Miocene_Mason]

1 minute ago, Seguidora-de-Isis said:

 

It is precisely this information that I tried to pass on to our friend BonuFrailman , that is, apateon is a different species from Branchiosaurus, although both are incredibly similar. But that much salespeople do not have the slightest idea of what they are selling, so they simply link both names in the ad to aid in the search engine of the buyers.

Yeah, I was just elaborating

I think his specimen is not identifiable beyond branchiosaurid, at least not with those pictures. I have several well preserved ones and I have not been able to properly identify them past Apateon. 

[Pemphix]

Typical.

IMO real one.

Afaik, fakes of those are not known, because they are not very rare.

Species are difficult to determine:

http://www.senckenberg.de/files/content/forschung/publikationen/geologicasaxonica/56-2/03_eichler.pdf

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/285036662_Die_Branchiosaurier_aus_dem_Unterrotliegend_des_Dohlener_Beckens_bei_Dresden

[Miocene_Mason]

9 hours ago, Pemphix said:

Typical.

IMO real one.

Afaik, fakes of those are not known, because they are not very rare.

There is now laws against collecting them so there is a limited quantity available. I personally have never seen a fake but I can see the possibility of them being produced.

[Pemphix]

13 hours ago, WhodamanHD said:

There is now laws against collecting them so there is a limited quantity available. I personally have never seen a fake but I can see the possibility of them being produced.

That needs imo clarification: there's no general law against collecting esp. Branchiosaurus in germany.

Branchiosaurus is found at many locations in Germany.

At some of that locations it is forbidden to collect fossils at all by natural heritage law.

That restriction may be for only one spot in the area or the whole country at all. You always better asking the local resp. authority...

So there are legal possibilitys (even if not much) to collect them (but you need to know where).

Furthermore, there's a large amount of them in the old collections, so that they're offered quite frequently at the market.

Finally it's difficult to fake them, because a lot of them consist of not much more than some thin "coaly" layers, so that a fake is very fast very obvious viewable.