The Amateur Paleontologist Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 (edited) Hey everyone Last week I went to a small mineral/fossil market/exhibition near Lille (northern France). The thing lasted the whole weekend (29th and 30th September) - I managed to get to it just a few hours before it closed. There wasn't much diversity in terms of fossils, but I did spot some rather neat stuff - including some cool vertebrate specimens Cephalic 'armour' of a small placoderm (don't really remember from where, tho... ) Well-preserved eurypterid from the Silurian of Ukraine Little array of dinosaur teeth from the Cretaceous of USA (I think the seller mentioned that they were from the Hell Creek Fm.) More dinosaur (and 1 pterosaur, bottom-left corner) teeth; including 2 Bothriospondylus teeth from Madagascar.. I'd have loved to buy them Well-preserved Keichousaurus from the Triassic of Guizhou province (China). I didn't only 'gawk' at the fossils, I also bought a few little things : 2 small ?Lepisosteus fish teeth from the Cenomanian (Cretaceous) of Cap Blanc Nez (coast of northern France) I'm rather pleased I bought this one... Associated cranial remains of a small frog (?Ranidae) from the Maastrichtian (Late Cretaceous) of the Hell Creek Formation (Montana, USA). Seller told me that stuff is fairly uncommon.. Well, that's it Hope you enjoyed this -Christian EDIT: The last item (thanks for pointing this out, @jdp!) is actually a Doleserpeton skull from the Permian of Oklahoma... not a Hell Creek Fm. frog skull -Apologies for any confusion Edited October 7, 2018 by The Amateur Paleontologist "Ranid frog skull from HC Fm." is actually a Doleserpeton skull 2 Opalised fossils are the best: a wonderful mix between paleontology and mineralogy! Q. Where do dinosaurs study? A. At Khaan Academy!... My ResearchGate profile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdp Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 So I hate to be a downer, but that last item is actually probably Doleserpeton from the early Permian Dolese Quarry in Oklahoma. The teeth on the lower jaw establish that it is not frog at all (frogs have no teeth on the lower jaw) and the anatomy in general is consistent with Doleserpeton. Doleserpeton is relatively common in those deposits as isolated fragments, and some sellers put together these sorts of associations of partial skull fragments. There are occasional associated or articulated skulls, but they are relatively rare (I've seen maybe a half-dozen total). Doleserpeton is actually pretty cool in itself because it is thought to be very closely related to modern amphibians and would have looked like something in between a frog and a salamander. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Amateur Paleontologist Posted October 7, 2018 Author Share Posted October 7, 2018 @jdp Sorry for my mistake you're right, it's definitely a Doleserpeton skull - thanks for pointing this out. I still nevertheless find it pretty cool -Christian Opalised fossils are the best: a wonderful mix between paleontology and mineralogy! Q. Where do dinosaurs study? A. At Khaan Academy!... My ResearchGate profile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Rico Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 33 minutes ago, The Amateur Paleontologist said: Doleserpeton is a pretty cool one too - in my opinion I think that is really cool too. I can’t give you an ID but Doleserpeton is also found in Richards spur quorry Oklahoma I think . The Permian is an really interesting period mainly because I love Dimetrodon . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomotodon Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 And the first two teeth are very likely plesiosaurian rather than Lepisosteus, more pictures would help, but I am pretty sure they are from a ?Polycotylid plesiosaur or, less likely, a crocodilian 1 The Tooth Fairy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Amateur Paleontologist Posted October 7, 2018 Author Share Posted October 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, Bobby Rico said: I think that is really cool too. I can’t give you an ID but Doleserpeton is also found in Richards spur quorry Oklahoma I think . The Permian is an really interesting period mainly because I love Dimetrodon . You're right - I've seen records of Doleserpeton from the Richards Spur locality -Christian Opalised fossils are the best: a wonderful mix between paleontology and mineralogy! Q. Where do dinosaurs study? A. At Khaan Academy!... My ResearchGate profile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Amateur Paleontologist Posted October 7, 2018 Author Share Posted October 7, 2018 @Anomotodon the largest tooth is approximately 10mm tall with a 4mm (diameter) base.. isn't that a bit small for a polycotylid tooth, though? Opalised fossils are the best: a wonderful mix between paleontology and mineralogy! Q. Where do dinosaurs study? A. At Khaan Academy!... My ResearchGate profile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomotodon Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, The Amateur Paleontologist said: @Anomotodon the largest tooth is approximately 10mm tall with a 4mm (diameter) base.. isn't that a bit small for a polycotylid tooth, though? They can be even smaller, in juveniles, plus Polycotylids were not very large marine reptiles. In addition it's just the bottom half of the tooth. Size is very rarely among determining criteria for tooth ID. Here is mine from Albian of Kanev, Ukraine (?Polycotylidae indet.) 1 The Tooth Fairy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Amateur Paleontologist Posted October 7, 2018 Author Share Posted October 7, 2018 23 minutes ago, Anomotodon said: They can be even smaller, in juveniles, plus Polycotylids were not very large marine reptiles. In addition it's just the bottom half of the tooth. Size is very rarely among determining criteria for tooth ID. Here is mine from Albian of Kanev, Ukraine (?Polycotylidae indet.) Alright I'm willing to consider that option.. I'll look through a few papers, and soon I'll post here better quality pictures of my two specimens - to see if that's the right ID Thanks for the idea, though - I'd be thrilled if my specimens turned out to be polycotylid teeth -Christian Opalised fossils are the best: a wonderful mix between paleontology and mineralogy! Q. Where do dinosaurs study? A. At Khaan Academy!... My ResearchGate profile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdp Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 10 hours ago, Bobby Rico said: I think that is really cool too. I can’t give you an ID but Doleserpeton is also found in Richards spur quorry Oklahoma I think . The Permian is an really interesting period mainly because I love Dimetrodon . Richard's Spur is where the Dolese Brothers Quarry is. Both names refer to the same place and same deposits. I have seen other Doleserpeton material from other localities but it has not been formally described yet. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Rico Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 1 hour ago, jdp said: Richard's Spur is where the Dolese Brothers Quarry is. Both names refer to the same place and same deposits. I have seen other Doleserpeton material from other localities but it has not been formally described yet. Thank you I didn’t know that. I am very new to this material. @jdp can you please have a look at a thread I added a couple of days ago and if you have any thoughts. It would be much appreciated. @The Amateur Paleontologist I hope you don’t mind me adding a link from your post. If it is a problem l can delete it . cheers both . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brittle Star Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 Hi Perhaps Someone can put me right here, I thought the export of vertebrate fossilsfrom China were banned. Very nice collection you have there. 1 Never ask a starfish for directions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Rico Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 6 minutes ago, Brittle Star said: Hi Perhaps Someone can put me right here, I thought the export of vertebrate fossilsfrom China were banned. Very nice collection you have there. Was you talking about the Keichousaurus? I think a lot of vertebrae fossil from China are band from been exported but Keichousaurus are plenty full and not on part of this ban. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brittle Star Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 Thank you for the information, so confusing. Never ask a starfish for directions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdp Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 All Chinese exports are banned. Some still make it out, though, and there are some fossils that were exported prior to the enforcement of the ban 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdp Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 11 hours ago, Bobby Rico said: Thank you I didn’t know that. I am very new to this material. @jdp can you please have a look at a thread I added a couple of days ago and if you have any thoughts. It would be much appreciated. @The Amateur Paleontologist I hope you don’t mind me adding a link from your post. If it is a problem l can delete it . cheers both . I'll give these a look in a bit. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Amateur Paleontologist Posted October 8, 2018 Author Share Posted October 8, 2018 I'll post a few more pictures of my polycotylid/fish teeth tomorrow It'd be really cool if they turn out to really be poly. teeth! -Christian Opalised fossils are the best: a wonderful mix between paleontology and mineralogy! Q. Where do dinosaurs study? A. At Khaan Academy!... My ResearchGate profile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Amateur Paleontologist Posted October 13, 2018 Author Share Posted October 13, 2018 Sorry for the lateness of this post, but there was a slight problem with my computer.. Anyways, here are some more pictures of the most diagnostic tooth - does the polycotylid ID still hold? @Anomotodon BTW., sorry for not great photo quality - hope ID is still possible.. Just for information, specimen measures ~7 milimetres. So what do you guys think it is? -Christian Opalised fossils are the best: a wonderful mix between paleontology and mineralogy! Q. Where do dinosaurs study? A. At Khaan Academy!... My ResearchGate profile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomotodon Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Definitely a plesiosaur (open pulpar cavity and thick enamel are the diagnostic features of most reptiles, striae and compression are typical of plesiosaurs), not sure about family though, elasmosaurid teeth are very compressed and polycotylids are more conical 1 The Tooth Fairy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Amateur Paleontologist Posted October 13, 2018 Author Share Posted October 13, 2018 13 minutes ago, Anomotodon said: Definitely a plesiosaur Thanks for taking the time to ID my specimen - You've just made my day By the way, it isn't really clear from the pictures, but the base of the tooth is rather circular and the tooth is overall more conical.. So - Polycotylidae indet. it is, huh? -Christian Opalised fossils are the best: a wonderful mix between paleontology and mineralogy! Q. Where do dinosaurs study? A. At Khaan Academy!... My ResearchGate profile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomotodon Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 Anyway in this preservation the most accurate call is Plesiosauria indet. 1 The Tooth Fairy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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