JPinNh Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Found this river mucking. Thoughts? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kane Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Not seeing any bone texture, so I would guess these are geologic with no biologic origin. 1 ...How to Philosophize with a Hammer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPinNh Posted November 30, 2018 Author Share Posted November 30, 2018 By bone texture do you mean marrow, growth rings? What exactly do you look for when determining fossilized animal bone. And is there any place I can go to see the difference between petrified vs. Fossilized animal bone . Thank you for the input much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kane Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Generally, bone tissue will display a kind of spongy (cancellous) tissue in cross section. Determination of whether the bone is modern or fossilized usually involves the burn test; namely, applying a flame to the piece, and if it gives off a smell of burnt hair, it is modern. In terms of fossil bones, explore this forum! There are tons of old bones around here (and I'm not talking about members ). 6 ...How to Philosophize with a Hammer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, JPinNh said: By bone texture do you mean marrow, growth rings? What exactly do you look for when determining fossilized animal bone. And is there any place I can go to see the difference between petrified vs. Fossilized animal bone . Thank you for the input much appreciated. There is nothing like seeing them in person. I suggest a museum. The Museum of Comparative Zoology in Cambridge, MA would probably be the closest. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPinNh Posted November 30, 2018 Author Share Posted November 30, 2018 Ok but what about dense bone. Not being familiar with the bones of extinct animals are there parts that a piece say 4" x 5" x 5" could be utilized. Having butchered many cows seems to me its possible. Not arguing just trying to get all perspectives. Thanks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Things no one has mentioned/asked in this topic yet: Fossils need context as far as where they were found. So, ... Where was this found? Is the location known for producing bone fossils? What are the ages of the sedimentary formations in proximity to where this was found? Are there any sedimentary formations of the correct age to produce bone fossils? These are important questions whose answers will help to determine what you have there. Also, better pictures will be needed. Your pictures are quite blurry. Try taking them in daylight, either outside or near a window. Make sure the quality of your photos is set to a medium to high setting. Make sure they are clear and details are visible before posting. Angles to photograph would be top, bottom, left side, right side, front and back. Take the photos with a solid background behind your object. Use a ruler or tape measure for scale. All of this aside, I am not seeing any indication of bone in your item. However, better pictures and more detailed location information could change my mind. 11 Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 I would expect context to be critical on this one for there to be a chance to conclude it to be bone. The time that humans have inhabited North America is a small window for this apparent degree of mineralization to occur and then be exposed in a way where it could be collected. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Best as I can tell Your rock is a metamorphic silica rich rock (maybe quartzite). It is not the type of rock to hold fossils. All biologic structures will show some type of pattern. Bone shows a cellular structure, denser for the outer parts and less organized for the marrow. (neither visible in Your piece). So, aside from the general shape it is necessary to look at the fine details. Sometimes it takes magnification to see the finer details. What fossildude19 said above is also important. 1 Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 HI JPinNh. JpinWY speaking here (originally JPinMA). I agree with the others, no bone texture seen here. How far is the museum at Harvard? Others nearby, depending on where you are in NH might be in Amherst and I can't remember if there is much at UVM in Burlington. The museum at McGill also has some great stuff if you ever get to Montreal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 8 minutes ago, jpc said: How far is the museum at Harvard It might be advisable to take public transport if you aren't adept at finding parking in a college town. Cab fare from North station isn't too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Just now, JPinNh said: By bone texture do you mean marrow, growth rings? What exactly do you look for when determining fossilized animal bone. And is there any place I can go to see the difference between petrified vs. Fossilized animal bone. There seems to be endless misunderstanding about the term "fossilized." "Fossilized" is a near meaningless term in this specialized forum. The term is often substituted for "mineralized" in describing a bone or tooth. But, fossilized doesn't always equate to mineralized because many fossils are not impregnated or replaced by minerals. Bone is primarily composed of hydroxyapatite and collagen. Hydroxyapatite is an inorganic compound of calcium, phosphate, and hydroxide which is organized in a crystal latticework that gives bone (and teeth) structural rigidity. It preserves well as a fossil under some conditions. Collagen is a fiberous protein that serves as connective tissue in bones and muscles. It does not preserve well in a fossil. As collagen decomposes, it may be replaced in the hydroxyapatite latticework by minerals from the depositional environment (e.g. silica dioxide dissolved in groundwater). Bone reinforced with exogenous minerals is said to be "mineralized." If a bone is mineralized, it is likely to be a fossil. If a bone is not mineralized, it is less likely to be a fossil. No absolutes, only likelihoods. A 'burn test' or 'match test' will usually indicate whether there is collagen remaining in a bone -- scorched collagen has an awful smell. Teeth - dentin and enamel - contain hydroxyapatite, but don't contain much collagen, so the 'burn test' on a tooth would be a waste of time. 5 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goatinformationist Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Or cut to the chase; stop by a Good Will ($20 for mine), or Harbor Freight, or Northern Tools hardware store on a SALE day and purchase a $49.95 tile saw (with diamond blade). Things get easy when you are tooled up for fossils and rocks and is waaaay manly. Getting to the inside answers a whole lot of questions.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 1 hour ago, goatinformationist said: Or cut to the chase; stop by a Good Will ($20 for mine), or Harbor Freight, or Northern Tools hardware store on a SALE day and purchase a $49.95 tile saw (with diamond blade). Things get easy when you are tooled up for fossils and rocks and is waaaay manly. Getting to the inside answers a whole lot of questions.... One might inquire, and then ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPinNh Posted November 30, 2018 Author Share Posted November 30, 2018 Ok thank you all for the great input. Ill wait to post more pics and questions when i can get better images. To answer the location question it was a river find. So no way to know its origination place. And in all the years I lived here (was born here) I have never met another person mucking about down bottom. No where in NH really produces fossils as it is understood. The theory is glacial tilling ground them up into pieces. A better term would be perhaps petrified maybe. All the items comes from a very interesting and special place. Excepting the river finds. All have a context in which they were found that is absolutely solid. The pedigree of these are things are simply.....jaw droping. solid .what I need is clarification and identification so As to be able to have as complete information as possible. Even if they are mineral but resemble fossils types I would greatly appreciate even that knowledge. Its imoportant o me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 I agree with silica rich rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goatinformationist Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 On 11/30/2018 at 5:12 PM, Rockwood said: One might inquire, and then ? And then get busy. I have a nice red ivory tusk from the Suwannee river that currently needs slabbing and polishing. When sawn with a diamond blade the face of the item is very shiny and does not need a great deal of polishing, if any. Works well with pet wood, dino bone, stromatolites, and shell in matrix specie. A look inside can answer questions like the above. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Cleaning up a facet for identification purposes is permissible I guess. I might even go along with limited polishing in that case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goatinformationist Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 For positive ID of pet wood species, cross cut, paper thin slabs are made, acid etched then scoped, and some even printed using acid and nylon(?). Watched a video of that somewhere on Youtube and found it very interesting. The researcher had built a vast collection of wood grain prints. I think that I will hunt it down again. PS. I should have said woody cell prints... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 17 hours ago, Rockwood said: Cleaning up a facet for identification purposes is permissible I guess. I might even go along with limited polishing in that case. Many pieces of petrified wood look much better when polished. It is also needed for identification because a very clear view of the wood's cellular structure is required. There are many other fossils that can benefit from some alterations by man. Such as cutting and polishing geodized fossils, ammolite covered ammonites or agatized corals. And by and by it is "permissible" for anyone that owns a fossil to do whatever they want to with it, whether it is a good choice or not is a personal matter. Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 4 hours ago, ynot said: whether it is a good choice or not is a personal matter. Just don't ever polish an echinoid. That is going too far. (personal opinion) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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