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Terra

Tooth predator Smilodon or sea reptile?

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Terra

Tooth. Found in Poland by the river, on the beach among stones. Tooth resembles a predatory tooth "Smilodon", but maybe from a different period, for example jura. Is the marine reptile? Look at its curvature and structure in macro pictures.
I am asking for help with ID

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-AnThOnY-

Reminds me of sloth

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Terra

So, I add more information and photos
I will add, the tooth is single and isolated (it was not removed from the rock). After a few days, he dried and broke in half. I am sending pictures of its internal structure.
A little more information about fossils. He comes from the Vistula River from the area around Budzisko in the Świętokrzyskie Province. This region also has a geographical name: Nidziańska Basin. Zab is probably brought with settlements and thrown out across the river.
Below is some geology of the region:
In this place there are "Kracowieckie" meadows and loams - Miocene. On the other side of the river numerous specimens of mammoth bones have been confirmed in the Tarnow Plateau. There are Pleistocene sands and clays there.
About 40 km from this place are the Świętokrzyskie Mountains.

Maybe someone will help me in this?

 

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SailingAlongToo
1 hour ago, sseth said:

Looks like a pig tusk.

 

I was thinking boar tusk

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Shellseeker

Whale is a possibility.

WhaleHorizontalBandingX.JPG.260855ec4f2772421f4a618fe248273d.JPG

See the horizontal bands close to the root on my tooth. Kogiopsis .sp from a Florida creek

IMG_0041lKogiopsis.thumb.jpg.fc697668152dbad98c8aec562d4d4835.jpg

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Shellseeker

@Terra

While our teeth look similar ,  I am not sure that yours is Marine mammal.  Bobby @Boesse will know.  Are miocene marine mammals a possibility for this location?

Here is a clearer photo of whale banding... post-2220-0-59014900-1427745158.thumb.jpg.82e7bc3285440f4a391315a442b9d6ab.jpg

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Uncle Siphuncle

Smilodon for reference.

A07D80F3-FAB9-49D0-BD78-E78DD74E8EBF.jpeg

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abyssunder

It looks like a wild boar tusk, to me.

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Terra

Thanks to Shellseeker and others for information.
It's always a clue. The horizontal stripes close to the tooth root are similar to Kogiopsis .sp from Florida (nice specimen).
Tooth looks old ... but maybe there is nothing to develop if it is "Looks like a pig tusk" as your colleague "sseth" wrote
and others.
I will make a necklace / amulet for the Elf or St. Cluse ;)

I made a few other photos with horizontal stripes near the root.

T1.thumb.jpg.e53c539214b67f7ea5f92f339207c61c.jpg

T2.JPG

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Terra
On 12/19/2018 at 4:24 PM, Uncle Siphuncle said:

Smilodon celach informacyjnych.

A07D80F3-FAB9-49D0-BD78-E78DD74E8EBF.jpeg

Piękny!

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abyssunder

It may be of Sus scrofa scrofa (with a large amount of synonyms) considering your location.

Try to compare it with the ones below.

 

5c1ead7e08729_Fig_19.thumb.jpg.e3f1bf594e1331951c1c93bd5b76ba38.jpg

excerpt from W. Gumiński. 2014. Symbolic equipment in the graves of stone-age hunter-gatherers from Dudka in Mazuria (Northeastern Poland). Archeologia Polski 59(1):121-186

 

 

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Bronzviking

He said that the tusk split in two. Does this mean in is modern or a fossil? Thanks.

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Terra
On 22.12.2018 at 10:33 PM, abyssunder said:

It may be of Sus scrofa scrofa (with a large amount of synonyms) considering your location.

Try to compare it with the ones below.

 

5c1ead7e08729_Fig_19.thumb.jpg.e3f1bf594e1331951c1c93bd5b76ba38.jpg

excerpt from W. Gumiński. 2014. Symbolic equipment in the graves of stone-age hunter-gatherers from Dudka in Mazuria (Northeastern Poland). Archeologia Polski 59(1):121-186

 

 

Thank you for the information. What you write is probably a solution to the riddle. It is probably a wild boar, but its structure looks very old and probably comes from the settlement of a primitive man.
In those near the Vistula river archaeological research was conducted for over 10 years, where the presence of primitive people from the Łużycka culture (Kultura Łużycka) was found, occurring mainly in Polish lands from around 1350/1300 BC. up to around 500/400 years BC In the area there is also a pre-historic fortified settlement, which was blown away by the river. I will contact a friend archaeologist and give it to him.

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Terra
On 23.12.2018 at 1:48 AM, digit said:

Don't know that you can draw much from the fragility of this piece. I've had fossil Holmesina (large extinct armadillo species) from Florida that dried out and split. Those were certainly old and what we'd consider fossil but were also not highly mineralized. Seems that pigs were domesticated from wild boar in the Middle East at around the end of the last ice age (~13,000 years ago) and in China around 8,000 years ago. I suspect feral wild boar have a history of roaming the wilds of Poland where this specimen was found so it would probably be difficult to determine if this tusk came from a wild individual thousands (or tens of thousands) of years ago or was from is more modern (and cultivated) descendants.

 

We have a similar issue with bovine teeth in Florida. Modern cattle (of which there are many grazing in the wild areas near the rivers we hunt for fossils) have teeth that are very similar to the much older Bison which roamed the region for thousands of years before modern cattle were introduced. Horses evolved in North America starting around 50 mya and evolving by losing toes and getting larger for much of that time till the modern genus Equus came to be. Modern horses made their way over the land bridge between Alaska and Russia and worked their way west through the Asian Steppes into the Middle East and Africa. From there they were moved through human trade into Europe. The family completed their very slow round the world journey when made their way across the Atlantic with the Spanish as they explored (for better or for worse) the New World.

 

As a result, we can find in Florida Equus teeth of modern animals, possibly "antique" teeth from Spanish horses who met their fate in our state, as well as older individuals more closely related to the ones who spread west and became one of our most important cultivated beasts of burden (and transport) over the last couple of thousand years.

 

It's so much easier when we find teeth (or tusks) of things like Mammoth or Mastodons (or even Giant Ground Sloths) as we've got a pretty good handle on these not being modern individuals. The Spanish also brought over a number of wild boar to stock the New World with tasty critters that they knew how to hunt for food. As a result, we also turn up wild boar (and rarely domesticated pig) teeth and tusks as well when hunting fossils in Florida.

 

 

I think a good case for a pig/boar tusk has been made for this item. I don't know if it is possible from photos alone to come up with any clue to its age. Obviously, if it was heavily mineralized and more stone like than bone like, the case for this being a much older bone could be made. There are bones of creatures like cave bears that come out of dry cave areas that look and feel like they are completely modern due to a lack of any permineralization. Any find related to extant creatures that are still roaming the planet makes dating out-of-context finds nearly impossible. If it were found in context with a known stratigraphic layer that had been carbon dated, then a more precise date might be possible.

 

A Saber-tooth Cat incisor would have been a cooler (and exceedingly rarer) find but a boar tusk is still an unusual find and one for the collection.

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

Ken
I am impressed by the large amount of valuable information from you.
You write wisely and agree with this: "I suspect feral wild boar have a history of tumbles in the wild. ) We have a result, we can find in Florida Equus teeth of modern animals, possibly "antique" teeth from Spanish horses, who are in the state, as well as others.
...
As I wrote when answering my friend "abyssunder" from Romania, it seems to me that the bone probably comes from the local prehistoric settlement, the more so because its structure is heavily mineralized. It does not look contemporary - in my opinion. They give it to an archaeologist who will speak on this topic.

cheers ;)

Greetings

Terra

 

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digit

A prehistoric "antique" tusk may be just as interesting as a much older fossilized tusk. Only a detailed knowledge of the conditions and habitation of the location you found this piece will be able to lead you to the answer. It's a cool find regardless of how old it is. Please let us know if you are able to pin down the age of this find.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

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