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Randomguy1

Hey guys! I was in one of my favorite Pennsylvanian spots in East Kansas finding the usual brachs and bryos when all of a sudden this popped out at me. Any ideas as to what it might be? I’ve never seen something like this in my area before. Thanks.

image.jpg

image.jpg

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Rockwood

It might be helpful to see the interior better. End views ?

Doesn't look like a trilobite to me.

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Fossildude19

Not seeing trilobite here. 

Looks more like either arthropod, or  a fish mouth plate. 

I took the liberty of cropping and brightening the first photo.

 

image.jpg.b6094110b394964672b85dda6da3b997.jpg

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Herb

looks like some kind of fish plate to me also

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fifbrindacier

I agree it's not a trilobite fragment.

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Randomguy1

I’ll take some pictures of the ends when I get home. Currently on break at work. ;)

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Bronzviking

My first impression was turtle shell scute.

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KimTexan

Looks like it has some very nice texture on the raised portions. Better detail of that may be diagnostic.

Cool find. Good size too.

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Randomguy1

Yeah thanks! This is the first vetebrate fossil I have ever found in my area! It’s a pretty good size at about an inch! I was super shocked to find it today. Here’s a end shot. (Sorry my phone doesn’t take the greatest photos) 

5E23B952-85D3-4238-B339-B81B3A696512.png

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Randomguy1

And a closer up: 

A3B6D0F4-CC66-4218-8621-4A778302A0B9.jpeg

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Archie

Awesome find! It does look like a tooth plate of some sort, never seen anything quite like it before though! Reminds me a bit of some tooth plates of the chondrichthyan genus Psammodus.

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Archie

Also wondering if it could be a species of Janassa, could we see a clearer image of the "underside"? 

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Xiphactinus

I don’t know what it is, but it sure is cool looking!  ?????

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Randomguy1
2 hours ago, Xiphactinus said:

I don’t know what it is, but it sure is cool looking!  ?????

Wowwwwwww, way to boil down my thoughts into the simplest sentence possible. Just kidding of course. That’s exactly how I thought! xD

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Randomguy1
3 hours ago, Archie said:

Also wondering if it could be a species of Janassa, could we see a clearer image of the "underside"? 

Thank you guys for the help. I’m a total newbie with fossils! This is about the best I can with this camera:

image.jpg

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Rockwood

 I'm in the chondrichthyan tooth camp.

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Fossildude19
23 hours ago, Bronzviking said:

My first impression was turtle shell scute.

No turtles around yet, in the Pennsylvanian period. 

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FossilDAWG

@Carl may have an idea, or he may be able to run it past Dr. Maisey who is a leading authority on Paleozoic fish.

 

Don

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Archie

As its missing both ends its harder to tell if there was a root at one end and a crown at the other but those ridges really remind me of the dentine folds on the lingual surface of some petalodonts such as Janassa

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Rockwood
On 2/14/2019 at 3:42 PM, Randomguy1 said:

I was in one of my favorite Pennsylvanian spots in East Kansas finding the usual brachs and

 

7 hours ago, Archie said:

As its missing both ends its harder to tell if there was a root at one end and a crown at the other but those ridges really remind me of the dentine folds on the lingual surface of some petalodonts such as Janassa

Brachoipods have never been found in fresh water. I think we are looking at the root and crown.

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Randomguy1
36 minutes ago, Carl said:

You read my mind, Don. I reached out to him last week and here's what I got:

 

The Janassa suggestion in the Forum is actually pretty good. A good candidate for the fossil is Fissodus St John and Worthen 1875. Fissodus is currently classified as a janassid and it occurs in the Mississippian of N America. That would make this a petalodontid tooth. That’s a good possibility. Just the bladed bit at the cutting end would be missing. 

 

The ‘trilobite’ mention in the forum is interesting, because Janassa teeth were first referred to the ancient catch-all genus Trilobites, by Shlotheim (1820)!

 

Harpagofuturor (a chondrenchelyid) is another possibility, but less likely. See Lund (1982). 

 

Otherwise, the closest things to this I can find are some cochliodont tooth plates. It isn’t exactly like anything in the pictures I have, but the ones it’s least dissimilar from are:

 

Poecilodus, especially P rugosus (known from Illinois)

Chitonodus (known from Iowa)

Solenodus (Upper Carb of Russia)

Another taxon worth chasing is Cymatodus. I don’t have pics but it supposedly has ridges with “prominent waves”. There are two versions; one was described by Newberry and Worthen (1870) from Illinois, the other (I think from Russia) was described by Trautschold (1879) but is different. Interestingly (since Janassa is mentioned in the Forum), Newb and Worth suggested that some smaller specimens they had might be referable to Janassa rather than Cymatodus

Having said that, the above mentioned ‘cochliodonts’ are all incertae sedis, so at the end of the day we are still none the wiser. 

 

I’m gonna stick with Fissodus.

This is hugely helpful! Thanks!

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Captcrunch227

Fissodus makes sense to me, I'd second that

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