We need some suggestions for Triassic and Jurassic sharks to add to our education programs

[fossilsonwheels]

We have wrapped up our shark adaptation programs for this season. We still have at least 5 dinosaur programs left, possibly up to 9 but sharks are done for the spring. We have an abundance of shark adaptations that we covered in these 1 hour long presentations but I am ambitious. Next school year, we are splitting the program and offering a much more comprehensive two part program. We can really deep dive on the shark science and work in more sharks.

 

I am in the process of slowly adding some things to improve the program. We picked up a pretty little Caseodus tooth, some Orthacanthus playpternus teeth and Lissodus selachos tooth. I think we have found a Venustodus tooth and will finally be adding a Hybodus spine (fingers crossed). I am quite happy with the Carboniferous and Cretaceous shark material we have. We are well covered in the Miocene as well. 

 

There is a big hole though and I have decided to open this up to TFF members for suggestions. We have only a few tiny Hybodont teeth to cover the Triassic and Jurassic sharks. Splitting the program essentially means we would end the first program at the end of the Jurassic leaving the awesome Cretaceous sharks and the giants of the Miocene for the second program. The kids have loved the early sharks but I need to bolster the post Permian extinction sharks. Though mostly small sharks, these sharks are really important. There survival allowed modern sharks to develop.

 

I want to present enough species not to just fill in space but to draw a far more complete picture of what sharks survived the Permian and how they did it. I know options are limited but we can do better than 3 small Hybodont teeth. We do explain the Xenacanthids survived the Great Dying but they disappear relatively quickly after it. This is where we need your help.

 

What Triassic and Jurassic sharks can we and should we add? I figure we need an additional 5-6 sharks to cover. We do not need many but we do need to expand on this par tof the program so give us suggestions or thoughts if you know your sharks from this time. We love the ideas we get from our knowledgeable friends here. You have helped us craft thes eprograms and make them better so let's do that again lol

 

 

[siteseer]

12 hours ago, fossilsonwheels said:

We have wrapped up our shark adaptation programs for this season. We still have at least 5 dinosaur programs left, possibly up to 9 but sharks are done for the spring. We have an abundance of shark adaptations that we covered in these 1 hour long presentations but I am ambitious. Next school year, we are splitting the program and offering a much more comprehensive two part program. We can really deep dive on the shark science and work in more sharks.

 

I am in the process of slowly adding some things to improve the program. We picked up a pretty little Caseodus tooth, some Orthacanthus playpternus teeth and Lissodus selachos tooth. I think we have found a Venustodus tooth and will finally be adding a Hybodus spine (fingers crossed). I am quite happy with the Carboniferous and Cretaceous shark material we have. We are well covered in the Miocene as well. 

 

There is a big hole though and I have decided to open this up to TFF members for suggestions. We have only a few tiny Hybodont teeth to cover the Triassic and Jurassic sharks. Splitting the program essentially means we would end the first program at the end of the Jurassic leaving the awesome Cretaceous sharks and the giants of the Miocene for the second program. The kids have loved the early sharks but I need to bolster the post Permian extinction sharks. Though mostly small sharks, these sharks are really important. There survival allowed modern sharks to develop.

 

I want to present enough species not to just fill in space but to draw a far more complete picture of what sharks survived the Permian and how they did it. I know options are limited but we can do better than 3 small Hybodont teeth. We do explain the Xenacanthids survived the Great Dying but they disappear relatively quickly after it. This is where we need your help.

 

What Triassic and Jurassic sharks can we and should we add? I figure we need an additional 5-6 sharks to cover. We do not need many but we do need to expand on this par tof the program so give us suggestions or thoughts if you know your sharks from this time. We love the ideas we get from our knowledgeable friends here. You have helped us craft thes eprograms and make them better so let's do that again lol

 

 

 

 

Hi Kurt,

 

I'm afraid 3 small hybodont teeth is a pretty good sample of what you can get from the Triassic and Jurassic.  If you look around, you can find Triassic teeth from Germany but it's pretty much just different genera and species of hybodonts.  You can get a Reticulodus from the Late Triassic of New Mexico but that is another hybodont.  Anything more exotic than that is a collector tooth which means it's not easy to get and generally not for sale, but if you have something else exotic to trade, you might get somewhere. 

 

Everything is small and not always complete from the Triassic - doesn't make an impressive display for kids.  When I've made a shark tooth display, I've had a Petrodus dermal denticle and a Xenacanthus tooth to represent the Paleozoic and one hybodont from the Triassic of Germany to represent the Triassic and Jurassic because that's what I've been able to get that's cheap and/or easy to trade for.

 

The Jurassic is only a slightly different story.  Again, it's mostly hybodonts but other groups appeared during that period too.  You might be able to get a mostly-complete Asteracanthus tooth (crusher-type hybodont teeth - sort of the Ptychodus of the Jurassic) and maybe a dorsal fin spine section.  You might find a Sphenodus tooth, but when you do, it's usually an isolated crown or a partial crown with a partial root.  Sphenodus and Asteracanthus might have been the largest sharks of the Jurassic but a large tooth is about an inch.  A large complete tooth is more of a collector-type tooth.  You are unlikely to find something like that for sale.  I was happy when a friend gave me a cast of a large Astercanthus tooth.

 

Everything else from the Jurassic tends to be tiny.  You might get lucky and find a shark tooth from Solnhofen, Germany where Archaeopteryx specimens have been found.  I have seen a couple of early orectolobiform shark teeth from there.  I have seen early angel shark, early ray, and Protospinax (an odd shark that may be a relative of the ancestor of squaliform sharks) teeth from the Late Jurassic of England - tough to get.

 

As you might have noticed, just about everything Triassic-Jurassic you can get comes from Europe.  Jurassic fossil-bearing marine exposures are not very extensive in the U.S. (sites in Wyoming).  I've never seen a shark tooth from that.  I've seen a lot of Triassic ammonites from Nevada but not one shark tooth.  Triassic teeth come out of Canada but I've never seen one.

 

I'm sorry to paint such a discouraging picture.  I've collected shark teeth for 30 years.  Back in the early 90's (before the internet), I used to write ten letters per week, contacting other collectors and trying to initiate trades for genera and species I didn't have.  I have several 1-3 inch flats of Cretaceous and Cenozoic teeth but all my Triassic-Jurassic teeth fit in one 1-inch flat and most of them are hybodonts. 

 

Jess

 

[Archie]

I occasionally trade with a friend in England for blocks of a Triassic Bone bed from the Westbury Formation in Gloucestershire and Lissodus minimus teeth were extremely common in it, they are beautiful but tiny (7mm is their max size) so maybe not too impressive for kids unfortunately.

[fossilsonwheels]

9 hours ago, siteseer said:

 

 

Hi Kurt,

 

I'm afraid 3 small hybodont teeth is a pretty good sample of what you can get from the Triassic and Jurassic.  If you look around, you can find Triassic teeth from Germany but it's pretty much just different genera and species of hybodonts.  You can get a Reticulodus from the Late Triassic of New Mexico but that is another hybodont.  Anything more exotic than that is a collector tooth which means it's not easy to get and generally not for sale, but if you have something else exotic to trade, you might get somewhere. 

 

Everything is small and not always complete from the Triassic - doesn't make an impressive display for kids.  When I've made a shark tooth display, I've had a Petrodus dermal denticle and a Xenacanthus tooth to represent the Paleozoic and one hybodont from the Triassic of Germany to represent the Triassic and Jurassic because that's what I've been able to get that's cheap and/or easy to trade for.

 

The Jurassic is only a slightly different story.  Again, it's mostly hybodonts but other groups appeared during that period too.  You might be able to get a mostly-complete Asteracanthus tooth (crusher-type hybodont teeth - sort of the Ptychodus of the Jurassic) and maybe a dorsal fin spine section.  You might find a Sphenodus tooth, but when you do, it's usually an isolated crown or a partial crown with a partial root.  Sphenodus and Asteracanthus might have been the largest sharks of the Jurassic but a large tooth is about an inch.  A large complete tooth is more of a collector-type tooth.  You are unlikely to find something like that for sale.  I was happy when a friend gave me a cast of a large Astercanthus tooth.

 

Everything else from the Jurassic tends to be tiny.  You might get lucky and find a shark tooth from Solnhofen, Germany where Archaeopteryx specimens have been found.  I have seen a couple of early orectolobiform shark teeth from there.  I have seen early angel shark, early ray, and Protospinax (an odd shark that may be a relative of the ancestor of squaliform sharks) teeth from the Late Jurassic of England - tough to get.

 

As you might have noticed, just about everything Triassic-Jurassic you can get comes from Europe.  Jurassic fossil-bearing marine exposures are not very extensive in the U.S. (sites in Wyoming).  I've never seen a shark tooth from that.  I've seen a lot of Triassic ammonites from Nevada but not one shark tooth.  Triassic teeth come out of Canada but I've never seen one.

 

I'm sorry to paint such a discouraging picture.  I've collected shark teeth for 30 years.  Back in the early 90's (before the internet), I used to write ten letters per week, contacting other collectors and trying to initiate trades for genera and species I didn't have.  I have several 1-3 inch flats of Cretaceous and Cenozoic teeth but all my Triassic-Jurassic teeth fit in one 1-inch flat and most of them are hybodonts. 

 

Jess

 

Hi Jess

 

Your input is always welcomed and I do not see it as painting a discouraging picture at all. I see it as providing information that is very relevant for the education program but also for me as a collector. One of the things we covered with the kids in class was just how few sharks made it through the Permian and that they were small. When we expand the program, we can expand on that subject matter as well.

 

They are adaptation programs so the size of the shark is not the important thing. We discuss how they survived and how those adaptations helped pave the way for the far more physically impressive sharks that followed. The kids also do not mind seeing small shark teeth. Most of them that thought that Reticulodus and Lissodus were really quite cute when they found out how tiny there were.

 

I found a couple of dealers in the UK with some reasonably priced Astercanthus teeth. One of them also had some reasonably priced Cretorectolobus, Protospinax, Squatina, and Synechodus teeth plus a variety of hybodonts from the UK. It sounds like we should grab a few of those and just run with that. We can make an interesting if small display of small teeth and the kids will be fine with that.

 

The goal is not large teeth. We want to give them the clearest picture we can of what sharks were alive through the various periods. This was very helpful information. Thank you

 

Kurt

[fossilsonwheels]

1 hour ago, Archie said:

I occasionally trade with a friend in England for blocks of a Triassic Bone bed from the Westbury Formation in Gloucestershire and Lissodus minimus teeth were extremely common in it, they are beautiful but tiny (7mm is their max size) so maybe not too impressive for kids unfortunately.

The kids actually liked learning about Lissodus. They were a tiny freshwater shark and that is cool. I just picked up an L. selachos tooth to add to the L. minimus tooth we have. With kids, it is not the size of the shark alone that makes them interesting. They dig the small sharks too so any shark tooth can be of use to us. Thanks you for the suggestion.

[ynot]

A bit off subject, but have You considered the Cetorhinus sp — Basking shark's teeth?

BIG SHARK,  tiny teeth.

[siteseer]

On 5/4/2019 at 8:54 AM, fossilsonwheels said:

Hi Jess

 

Your input is always welcomed and I do not see it as painting a discouraging picture at all. I see it as providing information that is very relevant for the education program but also for me as a collector. One of the things we covered with the kids in class was just how few sharks made it through the Permian and that they were small. When we expand the program, we can expand on that subject matter as well.

 

They are adaptation programs so the size of the shark is not the important thing. We discuss how they survived and how those adaptations helped pave the way for the far more physically impressive sharks that followed. The kids also do not mind seeing small shark teeth. Most of them that thought that Reticulodus and Lissodus were really quite cute when they found out how tiny there were.

 

I found a couple of dealers in the UK with some reasonably priced Astercanthus teeth. One of them also had some reasonably priced Cretorectolobus, Protospinax, Squatina, and Synechodus teeth plus a variety of hybodonts from the UK. It sounds like we should grab a few of those and just run with that. We can make an interesting if small display of small teeth and the kids will be fine with that.

 

The goal is not large teeth. We want to give them the clearest picture we can of what sharks were alive through the various periods. This was very helpful information. Thank you

 

Kurt

 

If the kids like little, you're in business.  Lots of kids like little toys.  My youngest niece has gone from one type of tiny toy to another.  For some reason I thought they'd be less interested in little teeth after hearing about megalodon from television shows and seeing some of the larger teeth.

 

That's great that you found dealers for Jurassic teeth - four other orders represented besides hybodonts.  Back in the 90's, I was lucky to get anything weird from European dealers because they already had local collectors to sell to.  You should ask them if they can get you a section of dorsal fin spine or a cephalic hook.  It would be another part of a hybodont you could point to on an illustration of the whole animal.

 

Jess

[fossilsonwheels]

On 5/5/2019 at 9:01 PM, siteseer said:

 

If the kids like little, you're in business.  Lots of kids like little toys.  My youngest niece has gone from one type of tiny toy to another.  For some reason I thought they'd be less interested in little teeth after hearing about megalodon from television shows and seeing some of the larger teeth.

 

That's great that you found dealers for Jurassic teeth - four other orders represented besides hybodonts.  Back in the 90's, I was lucky to get anything weird from European dealers because they already had local collectors to sell to.  You should ask them if they can get you a section of dorsal fin spine or a cephalic hook.  It would be another part of a hybodont you could point to on an illustration of the whole animal.

 

Jess

Well the kids do get to see big shark teeth as we end with the giant sharks of the Miocene so it all balances out. When the program starts they all want to know about Megalodon but almost all of the kids have really loved the earlier sharks too. We try yo get them to realize that small sharks have been the survivors of many extinction events and they are just as important ecologically.

 

I like finding the obscure stuff and I have found European dealers to be the best source for the type of stuff we need to find for this part of the presentation. I did find a cephalic hook and a dorsal spine. I do not know if we will end getting them but hopefully we do !

 

Kurt

[fossilsonwheels]

On 5/4/2019 at 2:39 PM, ynot said:

A bit off subject, but have You considered the Cetorhinus sp — Basking shark's teeth?

BIG SHARK,  tiny teeth.

I apprently did not respond, Yes we will be covering Basking Sharks in next years school programs. We split the program into two presentations so they will get some love as we are expanding the modern sharks we cover !!

[fossilsonwheels]

On 5/3/2019 at 11:07 PM, siteseer said:

 

 

Hi Kurt,

 

I'm afraid 3 small hybodont teeth is a pretty good sample of what you can get from the Triassic and Jurassic.  If you look around, you can find Triassic teeth from Germany but it's pretty much just different genera and species of hybodonts.  You can get a Reticulodus from the Late Triassic of New Mexico but that is another hybodont.  Anything more exotic than that is a collector tooth which means it's not easy to get and generally not for sale, but if you have something else exotic to trade, you might get somewhere. 

 

Everything is small and not always complete from the Triassic - doesn't make an impressive display for kids.  When I've made a shark tooth display, I've had a Petrodus dermal denticle and a Xenacanthus tooth to represent the Paleozoic and one hybodont from the Triassic of Germany to represent the Triassic and Jurassic because that's what I've been able to get that's cheap and/or easy to trade for.

 

The Jurassic is only a slightly different story.  Again, it's mostly hybodonts but other groups appeared during that period too.  You might be able to get a mostly-complete Asteracanthus tooth (crusher-type hybodont teeth - sort of the Ptychodus of the Jurassic) and maybe a dorsal fin spine section.  You might find a Sphenodus tooth, but when you do, it's usually an isolated crown or a partial crown with a partial root.  Sphenodus and Asteracanthus might have been the largest sharks of the Jurassic but a large tooth is about an inch.  A large complete tooth is more of a collector-type tooth.  You are unlikely to find something like that for sale.  I was happy when a friend gave me a cast of a large Astercanthus tooth.

 

Everything else from the Jurassic tends to be tiny.  You might get lucky and find a shark tooth from Solnhofen, Germany where Archaeopteryx specimens have been found.  I have seen a couple of early orectolobiform shark teeth from there.  I have seen early angel shark, early ray, and Protospinax (an odd shark that may be a relative of the ancestor of squaliform sharks) teeth from the Late Jurassic of England - tough to get.

 

As you might have noticed, just about everything Triassic-Jurassic you can get comes from Europe.  Jurassic fossil-bearing marine exposures are not very extensive in the U.S. (sites in Wyoming).  I've never seen a shark tooth from that.  I've seen a lot of Triassic ammonites from Nevada but not one shark tooth.  Triassic teeth come out of Canada but I've never seen one.

 

I'm sorry to paint such a discouraging picture.  I've collected shark teeth for 30 years.  Back in the early 90's (before the internet), I used to write ten letters per week, contacting other collectors and trying to initiate trades for genera and species I didn't have.  I have several 1-3 inch flats of Cretaceous and Cenozoic teeth but all my Triassic-Jurassic teeth fit in one 1-inch flat and most of them are hybodonts. 

 

Jess

 

Jess

 

Just wanted to let you know we found and purchased the top four Jurassic sharks on our list- Asteracanthus ( 2 nice teeth), Sphenodus, a Squatinaform, and a possible Cretorectolobrus. All of them at bargain prices too though not collector grade teeth but exactly what we need. I am quite happy with myself at the moment lol  We are not done yet either. I will be picking up Protospinax, Lissodus, and possibly another Squatina type. I think we will end up with 8-10 Jurassic sharks before the start of the school year.

 

Next up in the expansion are some more Cretaceous sharks. I just added a Cretodus. Squatina is next hopefully.

[siteseer]

On 6/11/2019 at 12:07 PM, fossilsonwheels said:

Jess

 

Just wanted to let you know we found and purchased the top four Jurassic sharks on our list- Asteracanthus ( 2 nice teeth), Sphenodus, a Squatinaform, and a possible Cretorectolobrus. All of them at bargain prices too though not collector grade teeth but exactly what we need. I am quite happy with myself at the moment lol  We are not done yet either. I will be picking up Protospinax, Lissodus, and possibly another Squatina type. I think we will end up with 8-10 Jurassic sharks before the start of the school year.

 

Next up in the expansion are some more Cretaceous sharks. I just added a Cretodus. Squatina is next hopefully.

 

 

Hi Kurt,

 

That's great.  I'm glad you were able to find a dealer with cheap, medium-grade Jurassic teeth for sale.

 

Jess