RCFossils Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 This past Sunday, I had a chance to explore a few roadcuts near Dubuque Iowa. i came across a very unusual fossil that had me stumped. After reading through an old paper, I found a match to my fossil. The guide listed the name as Climaconus. I was unfamiliar with what it might be so I did a Google search which did not yield any helpful results. I am hoping that someone on the forum might be familiar with this animal and enlighten me as to what it is. Is the name still valid? The Rock is part of the Maquoketa Formation which is upper Ordovician. It was found in the Brainard Shale member. Any help will be appreciated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCFossils Posted July 30, 2019 Author Share Posted July 30, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldigger Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 Does the other side look the same? Where's that identification app when you need it?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCFossils Posted July 30, 2019 Author Share Posted July 30, 2019 8 minutes ago, caldigger said: Does the other side look the same? Where's that identification app when you need it?! Yes, it looks similar on both sides Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 Climacoconus is the correct spelling. It does not match the published examples of Climacoconus. Treatise on Invertebrate Paleontology: Part F Coelenterata 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilDAWG Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 The specimen somewhat resembles an anal sac of a crinoid. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCFossils Posted July 30, 2019 Author Share Posted July 30, 2019 Thanks Scott! The Mystery deepens. This is the image that I was basing the ID on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCFossils Posted July 30, 2019 Author Share Posted July 30, 2019 Thanks to Scott putting me on the right track, I think I have figured out what this is. I came across a paper on unusual Conularids from the Midwest. There is a specimen figured labeled as Glyptoconularia gracilis. Need to see if I can track down the original description. The paper states that it is extremely rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 This one also has different features. Van Iten, H. 1994. Redescription of Glyptoconularia gracilis (Hall), an Ordovician conulariid from North America. pp. 363-366. In: Landing, E. (ed.), Studies in Stratigraphy and Paleontology in Honor of Donald W. Fisher. New York State Museum and Geological Survey Bulletin, 481:1-380 PDF LINK 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 WOW WOW WOW!!! That's the kind of thins I wait for. A complete What on Earth! Outstanding find. Thanks for the education!! But I'm still having a hell of a time seeing a conulariid in there. Reminds me more of a starfish arm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minnbuckeye Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 Is it really a conulariid? The diameter of the top and bottom of the long large piece is identical, different from my uneducated opinion that conularias seem to taper gradually throughout their length???. After looking at google images of species quoted, they all show obvious tapering. Also noticed the smaller piece has 6 "rows" while the larger only 4. Hope someone can ID for sure. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandpa Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 I found a reference to Climaconus in Geological Society of Iowa Guidebook 63 "Geology in the Dubuque Area" 1997 http://publications.iowa.gov/25714/1/GSI-063.pdf See "Stop 5" beginning on p. 25. Page 30 has "Table 1" which is a list of the fauna for that stop. Listed under Cnidaria - Class uncertain (Conularids) is Climaconus pumilus. Page 31, Figure 4 has a sketch of the genus in the top left corner of the figure. It looks very much like what you have found. A quick scanning of the text describing the stop did not result in any mention of the specimen jumping out of the page at me, but it was a quick scan. The "References" section at the end of Stop 5 (pp. 35ff) did show some interesting references regarding conularids which might prove useful to track down (esp. Glenister, 1957; also Van Iten et al, 1996 as well as some of Brown's contributions on the formation). I must say that what you have sure doesn't have the pyramidal shape of a conularid. Keep us posted on what you find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCFossils Posted July 30, 2019 Author Share Posted July 30, 2019 Thanks for all of the great input. This is definitely a head scratcher. I agree that the description of Glyptoconularia that Scott posted does not match my specimen. I was basing the Glyptoconularia ID based on a paper that I came across. The paper is titled Problematical Fossil Cnidarians From The Upper Ordovician Of North Central America by Heyo Van Iten, Julie Ann Fitzke and Robt S Cox 1996. There is a similar looking specimen on Plate 1 figure 5 that is labeled Conularia Gracilis. I believe the site indicated in the paper is either the same location where I found my specimen or another nearby site. I am attaching a pictures of the specimen in the paper. I agree that this does not look anything like any conularia that I have seen. Hopefully someone who has collected the area will see this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilDAWG Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 How about this? Plicodendrocrinus casei anal sac. image from http://drydredgers.org/crinoids_cladida.htm scale bar = 10 mm Don 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minnbuckeye Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 19 minutes ago, FossilDAWG said: How about this? Plicodendrocrinus casei anal sac. @FossilDAWGNow we are on to something!!! The crinoid posted in another thread looked like dendrocrinus to me. Another FF post had a similar sample in question: Maquoketa Echinoderm Bit Follow 0 Maquoketa Echinoderm Bit By squalicorax, June 18, 2012 in Fossil ID Reply to this topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 On 7/30/2019 at 5:03 PM, FossilDAWG said: How about this? Plicodendrocrinus casei anal sac. image from http://drydredgers.org/crinoids_cladida.htm scale bar = 10 mm Don Brower, J.C. 1995 Dendrocrinid Crinoids from the Ordovician of Northern Iowa and Southern Minnesota. Journal of Paleontology, 69(5):939-960 Plicodendrocrinus casei (Meek, 1871) Description of Iowa specimens: "Anal sac partly known, with straight sides that may expand slightly in distal direction; one side of sac consists of three full columns of plates and half of two columns along its margins. Anal sac plates strongly plicate, with narrow, sharp stellate ridges; plications of proximal plates definitely involve folding of plate margins; pores not present along plate margins between stellate ridges. Most anal sac plates hexagonal; width: height as follows: proximal plates 1.54-1.75, medial plates about five rows above anal X 1.92, distal plates 2.93 to 3.40. Anal opening and tegmen not seen." 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilDAWG Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 Rob, By any chance did this fossil come from the same outcrop where you found the nice dendrocrinid calyx you posted in another thread? Wouldn't it be amazing if these fossils fit together? You can see a bit of the base of the anal sac on that calyx, and the pattern seems to match. Don 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilDAWG Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 @RCFossils, what do you think? Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCFossils Posted August 1, 2019 Author Share Posted August 1, 2019 On 7/30/2019 at 5:11 PM, FossilDAWG said: Rob, By any chance did this fossil come from the same outcrop where you found the nice dendrocrinid calyx you posted in another thread? Wouldn't it be amazing if these fossils fit together? You can see a bit of the base of the anal sac on that calyx, and the pattern seems to match. Don Yes, the fossil in question came from the same site. This appears to be an excellent match! Thanks to everyone for some great detective work. My initial thought when I found the Fossil was that it was a Crinoid anal tube. The climaconus image is what confused me. It definitely makes more sense then a conularia. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCFossils Posted August 1, 2019 Author Share Posted August 1, 2019 On 7/30/2019 at 5:11 PM, FossilDAWG said: Rob, By any chance did this fossil come from the same outcrop where you found the nice dendrocrinid calyx you posted in another thread? Wouldn't it be amazing if these fossils fit together? You can see a bit of the base of the anal sac on that calyx, and the pattern seems to match. Don Thanks again Don, I took a better look at the calyx this morning and observed the same structure that is preserved on the anal tube. I matched the structure on the calyx up to the tube and it is a perfect fit! i also have a few sections of stem that seem to attach. I need to glue it all together but it looks pretty amazing. 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 Awesome find, Rob! @RCFossils And excellent ID, Don! @FossilDAWG These kinds of topics (Those that present a mystery that eventually gets figured out) are my favorites on the Forum. 2 Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 Excellent observation, Don! Congratulations, Rob! The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crabfossilsteve Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 Wow, now that is a cool connection of specimens that were found at different times. Congratulations and a very cool crinoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilDAWG Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 That's even more amazing than I would have dared to hope. Don 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandpa Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 I am very happy for you; such a great find!! And great recognition, Don. This one was a lot of fun!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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