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mikeymig

Rarer to find than complete trilobites

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Fossildude19

This is very cool, Mikey!

Are these single valves? 

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Al Dente

I agree with Peat Burns. Pretty sure it’s a brachiopod.

 

 

 

D3312108-5E58-4657-84FB-78CEDA375132.jpeg.93a1d8c50e9232d0177bd7c90c5235e4.jpeg

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Fossildude19

I've never seen an Orbiculoidea  that big.    :unsure: 

Also, I've never seen one not in matrix, or oval in shape. :headscratch:

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mikeymig

It depends on who you talk to and what authors you trust. Some books and publications call it an inarticulate brachiopod and some call it an arthropod/branchiopod. The unit that it was found in is very limited as to the type of fossils found (no corals, very few brachs, rare trilobites, and phyllocarids). Every Orbiculoidea I have found is small, and attached to something. These are larger (a tad over 2 inches) and both valves. The preservation is very similar with that of the phyllocarids. The first one I found I labeled - Orbiculoidea (inarticulate brachiopod). I was told (by someone way smarted than me) that the latest research has classified these large specimens at this site as branchiopods. I do not have the paper or author but trust my source. It makes sense to me on the level of collecting when I see whats preserved within this horizon. Mobile crustacean (phyllocarids, trilobites, branchiopods) and mobile cephalopods dominate this locality. So for now, IM calling it an arthropod. :)      

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FossilNerd

Very cool find! Even if the specimen doesn’t turn out to be a clam shrimp in the end, I’m glad that you shared. I had never heard of them before and I love learning about something new! :thumbsu:

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mikeymig
2 hours ago, FossilNerd said:

Very cool find! Even if the specimen doesn’t turn out to be a clam shrimp in the end, I’m glad that you shared. I had never heard of them before and I love learning about something new! :thumbsu:

Thanks. In 25 years, I've only found a few of these and we only find them at one locality here in NY. My girlfriend found this specimen yesterday. I had the ones I found labeled Orbiculoidea (Inarticulate Brachiopod) in my collection then I was told that they were Schizodiscus capsa a Branchiopod (Arthropod). Now Im told the label was right the first time. So I dont know fossilnerd. I just want my labels to be as accurate as possible ;) 

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Al Dente

Al Tahan found an identical one in this thread: http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/93930-tried-a-new-spot-this-weekend/

Because of the large size I thought it was a fish scale instead of a brachiopod but the pedicle opening on both of these examples makes me pretty sure they are brachiopods. The two valves on mikeymig's fossil rules out fish scale. The asymmetry of the two valves (one side has the pedicle opening) makes me think brachiopod.

 

 

al tahan.jpeg

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Fossildude19
33 minutes ago, Al Dente said:

Al Tahan found an identical one in this thread: http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/93930-tried-a-new-spot-this-weekend/

Because of the large size I thought it was a fish scale instead of a brachiopod but the pedicle opening on both of these examples makes me pretty sure they are brachiopods. The two valves on mikeymig's fossil rules out fish scale. The asymmetry of the two valves (one side has the pedicle opening) makes me think brachiopod.

Except, Al's find was confirmed to be a fish scale by Ted Daeschler

 

Also, I'm having a hard time finding any images where the Orbiculoidea look like they are over 2 cm.  :headscratch:

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Al Dente

I would be surprised if these weren't the same thing.

 

 

 

al tahan.jpeg

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FossilNerd
3 hours ago, mikeymig said:

Thanks. In 25 years, I've only found a few of these and we only find them at one locality here in NY. My girlfriend found this specimen yesterday. I had the ones I found labeled Orbiculoidea (Inarticulate Brachiopod) in my collection then I was told that they were Schizodiscus capsa a Branchiopod (Arthropod). Now Im told the label was right the first time. So I dont know fossilnerd. I just want my labels to be as accurate as possible ;) 

I completely understand wanting your labels right! I prefer to be as accurate as possible myself, but I have been proven wrong on more than one occasion, and honestly I’m glad that I was. I’d rather be corrected than go around spreading false information. We learn and grow from our mistakes. I think most here would agree.

 

I don’t have the knowledge to confirm nor deny your ID, but others have reported some compelling information. Just remember to look at all the evidence with an unbiased eye. Also remember that even if it turns out that it’s not a Branchiopod, it still sounds to be a rare and very cool find for your area. Something to be proud of finding/owning. :) 

 

I’m anxiously waiting to see how this one plays out. :popcorn:

 

 

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mikeymig

Im not concerned or will be upset if this is a brachiopod (like I have always thought they were) and not an arthropod "clam shrimp". My gf Paula will be happy to hear its a brachiopod and not a primitive crustacean.  She was kinda grossed out about it looking like a crab or spider. She likes brachiopods a lot and she found this huge Orthospirifer (the best I have ever seen) a week earlier at the same locality. Now shes 2 rare brachs in 2 trips :) 

 

  Thank you everyone for your comments. 

DSC07748.JPG

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Al Tahan

Wow...just saw this...I initially thought I had found an inarticulate brachiopod and posted that I found a massive inarticulate brachiopod. Then It was suggested I ask Ted Daeschler if he thought this was a scale. He seemed to think it was a rhizodont scale. Of all the orbiculoidea I have found they are always tiny! I cant believe you found this with 2 valves!! I don’t see how it could be a scale now cause these are absolutely the same genus species. 

 

I can see how this can be confusing. Not sure what the final conclusion will be but I’m on the brachiopod train. 

 

FB5BCA7B-AB6E-436A-9F57-AEF3B8F32F62.jpeg.9b2d070f97475484c0de3ace970e53ae.jpeg

 

I outlined this diagram with a black line. It’s not perfect but shows the basic shape I would expect from this in a fossil form. Mike and my specimens are very round in nature compared to this. 

 

 

These seem much rounder.  

404059A7-4E12-4322-8D45-AB55F24085EB.jpeg

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Peat Burns

I don't know if it will fall in the genus Orbiculoidea or not, I just suggested that as a morphological comparison (i.e. "compare with...").

 

Perhaps it will end up being a new species.  

 

Edit: Pirahna may have it nailed (although I don't know the scale on the reference but it looks like a good match)

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Jeffrey P

I have seen Orbiculoidea in the Oriskany (Lower Devonian) Formation from Albany County, N.Y. approaching that size. 

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ynot

:default_faint:WOW, something new to me!

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