Reebs Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 Hi there, found these teeth at a landsite in Venice, FL. I believe the three on the left could be barracuda? Is this even remotely close to a correct ID?! Heh. Also, what is the tiny more curved one on the far right from? It has a hole in top like it’s a tooth as well. Thanks for looking - Marie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reebs Posted October 10, 2019 Author Share Posted October 10, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleoNoel Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 the curved tooth on the right appears to be a small crocodile or gator tooth. The others look like barracuda teeth to me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facehugger Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 +1 for crocodilian tooth on the right... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reebs Posted October 10, 2019 Author Share Posted October 10, 2019 11 minutes ago, facehugger said: +1 for crocodilian tooth on the right... Cool! Thanks a bunch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reebs Posted October 10, 2019 Author Share Posted October 10, 2019 14 minutes ago, PaleoNoel said: the curved tooth on the right appears to be a small crocodile or gator tooth. The others look like barracuda teeth to me. Thank you. Appreciate it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vieira Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 I agree. The first 3 are Barracuda and the last one crocodile. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 I'm with the others on the left three teeth being barracuda (reasonably distinctive flattened fish teeth that I find quite often picking through Florida micro-matrix). I have questions on the last one on the right. While it is true that somewhat conical teeth with concave conical roots are characteristic of crocodilian teeth, I think the curved tooth may turn out to be a large garfish tooth. Gator teeth are more plentiful than crocodile teeth in Florida (probably 100 to 1). Gator teeth have two very distinctive "seams" that run from the tip to the base on opposite sides of the tooth--looking like the tooth was formed in a two-part mold. To an internet image search for "fossil alligator teeth" and you'll see some examples that reasonably clearly show these two thin ridges called carinae (singular "carina"). Crocodile teeth are similarly shaped (sometimes longer and narrower than gator teeth) and have many more of these ridges (carinae) from the tip to the base. In your last tooth on the right, it seems from the photo to be fairly smooth without any carinae of any number. The extreme curvature would also be a bit on usual for croc or gator teeth (plus it is rather small--on the order of scale of the barracuda teeth). I find smaller versions of these fish teeth all the time while picking micro-matrix from Florida waterways. I'm pretty sure these conical ones are from gars and an internet image search for "gar teeth" will turn up a number of photos similar to your fossil find (and some pretty freaky images of huge gars). Cheers. -Ken 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixgill pete Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 I agree with @digit that the tooth on the right is possibly a large garfish tooth. If not gar, some other type of fish. 1 Bulldozers and dirt Bulldozers and dirt behind the trailer, my desert Them red clay piles are heaven on earth I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt Patterson Hood; Drive-By Truckers May 2016 May 2012 Aug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 Oct 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reebs Posted October 13, 2019 Author Share Posted October 13, 2019 @digit thank you so much for breaking it down. Such great points you made...very informative and makes sense. I appreciate it. And @sixgill pete you too, thanks for chiming in. Much appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 That's pretty much the basis of this forum. In general most of us know only a small amount about a wide variety of types of fossils (usually more about the types that particularly interest us). Some of us develop deeper knowledge in the fossil types that we collect often and we cab start to become de facto "experts" in fossil types that we see very regularly. One of the great strengths of this forum is that we have a diverse membership--geographically and in terms of interests. We try to foster a culture of sharing information to help bring others who share our passion for fossil hunting up the learning curve. We could simply make pronouncements of what we believe a fossil to be when attempting to make identifications (from photos--which is often difficult) but sharing the reasoning behind our opinions is always more helpful in the knowledge transfer. The contents of this ever expanding forum are searchable and quite often appear near the top of the list in search engine searches so trying to leave useful information in posts can often help more than the original poster--sometimes long after the initial question has been answered. Barracuda teeth are interesting in that they come in three different forms. I never seem to spot (or more likely properly identify) the numerous tiny gripping teeth found in the upper jaw. The two larger types of teeth are either symmetrically curved (middle two in your photo above) or have more of a subtle S-curve to them and a more distinctive tip to them (first tooth on the left above). Interestingly, the enamel coating on fossilized barracuda teeth often flakes off on both sides leaving only an enameled ridge along the edges of the tooth. I have not really noticed this on other types of fossilized fish teeth and I believe it to be characteristic of barracudas. I need to dig through some of my fossil bins and add some images of barracuda teeth to this topic. I'll also try to dig up smaller versions of the curved conical teeth. In the meantime, here is an excellent image of a prepared barracuda skull demonstrating the tooth types from a guy who prepares and articulates fish skulls. And we thought fossil hunting was an odd hobby. Cheers. -Ken https://www.flickr.com/photos/galleriejc/7215675810 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Your conical tooth at the start of this post is a real keeper--it's larger than all that I've found before. I realized that I gave away many of my larger specimens (though not half the size of yours) but I still have some tiny ones to show the variation in these little curved teeth that I suspect may be garfish. Here's a little micro-gallery of barracuda teeth showing the ones with the S-curve to them (you'll notice a bit of a slightly wider enamel cap at the tip in several of these). I'm assuming this is a reinforcement at the tip and not due to the shedding of enamel which is apparent in some of the teeth which are more grayish with a black "outline" where the enamel still exists along the edge. Here are some of the more symmetrical teeth--some fully enameled and some where the enamel is worn or flaked leaving just the more persistent enamel edging visible as a black outline. Cheers. -Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Neither modern crocodilians nor garfish have teeth with such a pronounced curve, in my limited experience. The tooth on the right, the curved one, is certainly a fish tooth, but not barracuda. Just my opinion. 1 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Interesting! I know that garfish have conical teeth and given the sizes that these teeth can reach (like the one pictured above), I assumed it was a good match for size. I'm trying to think of what other non-chondrichthyan fish might have teeth this large. I'll have to consult some books and experts to see if we have a good candidate for these curved conical fish teeth. Cheers. -Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 You might consider Amia sp. among a good number of saltwater fish. 2 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Indeed! The Bowfin is an excellent candidate. I believe there is a PhD student up at UF that I met last year at the Montbrook site who was a bit of an expert in identifying fish fossils. I need to reconnect with her and get some of these mystery teeth identified. Heading up to Gainesville next month for more volunteer digging and I'll see if I can't cross paths with her. Cheers. -Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Checked the FLMNH database and Bowfin (Amia sp.) teeth (and other fossils) are indeed quite common at several localities across Florida. I'm awaiting confirmation but currently fully ready to believe that these curved conical teeth are from this bad boy. Cheers. -Ken 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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