Shellseeker Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 When hunting the Peace River, I find some - many Ray dermals of this general form (not quite as pristine as these phosphate mine versions: I have been finding more of the little "buttons" recently, maybe 5-10 a hunting day. When in the productive areas, I find lots of these which I always thought of base plates for attaching bottom of Ray spines. The I ran into something that I have definitely NOT seen previously. Less than the size of a penny. So, what is this and , am I moving back or forward in time comparing this new arrival with older stuff? Usual suspects: @Harry Pristis, @siteseer, @MarcoSr @sixgill pete@Al Dente @cowsharks 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilsNS Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Very cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 Wow! Maybe not as pristine, Jack, but still very cool! Pretty amazing, if you ask me. Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixgill pete Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 I believe this is also a dermal element of some type. There is a very similar one found at Lee Creek that is small<1/8 inch that elasmo.com I.D.'s as a bramble shark dermal denticle. 1 Bulldozers and dirt Bulldozers and dirt behind the trailer, my desert Them red clay piles are heaven on earth I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt Patterson Hood; Drive-By Truckers May 2016 May 2012 Aug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 Oct 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted November 1, 2019 Author Share Posted November 1, 2019 57 minutes ago, sixgill pete said: I believe this is also a dermal element of some type. There is a very similar one found at Lee Creek that is small<1/8 inch that elasmo.com I.D.'s as a bramble shark dermal denticle. Thanks, Should have provided size. Flat oval 16x13 mm, and 14 mm high to the point. The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBrian Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 Caveman thumbtack? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 It is a dermal denticle but I’ve never seen this form before. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 I agree that the posted specimen is a dermal denticle. Although very similar to the extant bramble shark dermal denticles below from Compagno 1984, I believe it is from a ray. Echinorhinus brucus dermal denticles Compagno 1984 Echinorhinus cookie dermal denticles Compagno 1984 Marco Sr. 4 "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted November 1, 2019 Author Share Posted November 1, 2019 Thanks for your responses. Just the fact that it is not recognized by a broad range of marine experts speaks volumes. A mystery dermal denticle. I am really pleased to find something so rare. I'll send the photos to Richard Hulbert, hoping that he'll pass them on to someone who has a focus on Florida miocene marine fossils. The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 Hi Marco Sr., I agree that it is similar in general shape to a bramble shark (Echinorhinus) dermal denticle but it most likely belongs to a ray. The bramble shark denticles I've seen are not as bulky and certainly smaller as shown above. I think this one may be from a dasyatid ray. While looking for more information on dermal denticles, I learned that elasmobranch researcher, Dr. J.A.F. Garrick, passed away last year. Some shark tooth collectors would know of him from his 1960's-1970's articles on modern sharks and rays which included not only illustrations of the teeth but also showing their jaw positions as well as illustrations of dermal denticles when applicable. I learned of Garrick's work in the late 80''s while reading Bruce Welton's Ph.D dissertation and I tracked down several of his articles at the USGS library in Menlo Park, CA (a library that no longer exists) and photocopied them. I've only touched on his contributions to science here. I tried to provide a link to the Facebook death notice but I got a flag that it was unsuccessful. You can find it by googling him in any case. https://www.facebook.com/sharkreferences/posts/we-were-informed-that-jack-garrick-passed-away-at-the-age-of-90-in-new-zealand-w/1986169331403161/ Jess 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 7 hours ago, siteseer said: While looking for more information on dermal denticles, I learned that elasmobranch researcher, Dr. J.A.F. Garrick, passed away last year. Some shark tooth collectors would know of him from his 1960's-1970's articles on modern sharks and rays which included not only illustrations of the teeth but also showing their jaw positions as well as illustrations of dermal denticles when applicable. I learned of Garrick's work in the late 80''s while reading Bruce Welton's Ph.D dissertation and I tracked down several of his articles at the USGS library in Menlo Park, CA (a library that no longer exists) and photocopied them. I've only touched on his contributions to science here. I tried to provide a link to the Facebook death notice but I got a flag that it was unsuccessful. You can find it by googling him in any case. https://www.facebook.com/sharkreferences/posts/we-were-informed-that-jack-garrick-passed-away-at-the-age-of-90-in-new-zealand-w/1986169331403161/ Jess Jess It is sad when one of the renown researchers passes away. I have PDFs of copies of his two papers "Garrick 1982 Sharks of the genus Carcharhinus" and "Garrick 1985 Additions to a revision of the shark genus Carcharhinus synonymy of Aprionodon and Hypoprion, and description of a new species of Carcharhinus(Carcharhinidae)" that I got years ago from Dr. Bruce Welton. The papers contain lots of useful information not found in latter papers/books on the genus Carcharhinus. As an aside, Bruce told me in an e-mail in late August that he was moving back to the Dallas area from New Mexico. Marco Sr. "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted November 3, 2019 Author Share Posted November 3, 2019 10 hours ago, siteseer said: I tried to provide a link to the Facebook death notice but I got a flag that it was unsuccessful. Your link worked for me, Jess. Impressive Obit for a scientist of significance. The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 16 hours ago, MarcoSr said: Jess It is sad when one of the renown researchers passes away. I have PDFs of copies of his two papers "Garrick 1982 Sharks of the genus Carcharhinus" and "Garrick 1985 Additions to a revision of the shark genus Carcharhinus synonymy of Aprionodon and Hypoprion, and description of a new species of Carcharhinus(Carcharhinidae)" that I got years ago from Dr. Bruce Welton. The papers contain lots of useful information not found in latter papers/books on the genus Carcharhinus. As an aside, Bruce told me in an e-mail in late August that he was moving back to the Dallas area from New Mexico. Marco Sr. Marco Sr., He published a great paper on Echinorhinus and ones on other squaloids known from the New Zealand area. If you're interested and you can't find any of them, let me know. I don't have pdfs of Garrick's papers but can mail you photocopies. Jess 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 13 hours ago, Shellseeker said: Your link worked for me, Jess. Impressive Obit for a scientist of significance. Hi Jack, Yes, he is known among researchers for many of his contributions though his papers seem less-cited than they should be. Jess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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