Stolen Collection

[highlandrock]

Hi folks,

I'm new here, and posting for a specific purpose, not a very happy one.

I'm looking for help from this group locating any portion of my fossil collection, which was stolen from my home in new jersey last year.

I'd like to ask that if you read this, you keep an eye out for anyone relatively new to the hobby with a suddenly very advanced collection, or trying to sell/trade high end pieces. there are a couple of the fossils which are very distinctive. if you are headed to tuscon, please let me know if you see any of these things there, and if so, which room. similarily, if anyone has offered to sell you something like this, i'd be very interested.

if the forum head will let me know where, i will be happy to post photos of several of these....

items stolen include:

saber cat skull. possibly the very best hoplophoneus skull in existance, it has zero restoration, and all real sabers, occipital crest, everything. the very notable distinguishing feature is that this cat was bitten by another cat in the upper rear (occipital crest region) of the skull, leaving a 1 cm somewhat rectangular puncture wound where the other saber entered his skull.

a fairly complete chinese ichythosaur type fossil, about 6 feet in length, very slender, repaired from formerly being in three sections. decent, but not top top preservation, 85% real, but some restored verts etc. somewhat muddy in appearance, but large, and pretty impressive nevertheless.

nice florida hyaenadon skull, upper all real, but lower mostly restored. much more elongated in appearance than the chinese versions.

a natural double mesosaur plate, two mesosaurs with tails intertwined, with heads, and some paddles. overall triangular in shape.

extremely nice triple raptor egg nest, nearly complete coverage, larger type raptors (wider, a bit longer than usual)

very pretty side view solenhofen dragonfly fossil, with very extensive dentrite markings...makes it look like the fly is in a natural setting almost.

5 keichousaur fossils...three in one plate (graduated sizes) a very tiny positive/negative baby keich and a nice single with oval rings showing the acid preparation

much much more, but these are the most recognizable/provable items. i've never seen another cat like mine, nor are there very many florida hyaenadons or triangular double mesos out there.

can anyone here help me? have you heard/seen any of these items? I'm pretty certain the thief was from up here in the NJ NY PA region.

thanks,

Rich Eisenman

highlandrock@prodigy.net

[Auspex]

Post your pics in this topic; here's a tutorial on how to do it:

CLICK HERE FOR TUTORIAL

[Eriphia]

doesn't mean it's yours, but I saw a sabber cat on ebay, some days ago. Price was quite high, so I did not pay attention, but remember I saw a skull.

Edited January 18, 2010 by Eriphia

[Phoenixflood]

There are some folks on here that may be able to help, or at least keep an eye out. We have some heavy duty collectors out there

Hope you find them!

[Guest Smilodon]

Hi Rich,

Really sorry to hear about this. I tracked down the thief at last year's PMS Show. I installed a security system right after that. I'd start with him. I'll send you an email with his info.

Don

[Acryzona]

Sorry to hear about your loss. Interested to see the photos - they sound awesome from your written description.

[Crinoid Queen]

That is trully horrible im sorry for you loss

[Harry Pristis]

Hi folks,

I'm new here, and posting for a specific purpose, not a very happy one. . . .

items stolen include: . . .

nice florida hyaenadon skull, upper all real, but lower mostly restored. much more elongated in appearance than the chinese versions.

. . . nor are there very many florida hyaenadons ... out there.

thanks,

Rich Eisenman

highlandrock@prodigy.net

Rich . . .

That is certainly a collector's nightmare you've experienced! I take extraordinary precautions to prevent this sort of thing; but, I worry any time I am not around. (It's like becoming a prisoner to your collections!)

I am impressed with the list of things you lost. I will certainly be on the lookout. I want to see the images.

What on earth is a "florida hyaenodon"???

[Just Bob]

Sorry to hear about that Rich, and I will certainly keep a eye out for them. There are a lot of NJ and Pa members here to keep a eye out for you. I hope you are able to recover your fossils.

[Frank Menser]

By all means post those pics.

I collect some of the things you mentioned, including Mesos and cats, so I at least have a familiarity. Will keep my eyes open.

(*%(%%$(*&^$^$*&^)&))(* thief!!

[Darbi]

We'll keep our eyes open for your fossils and this scumbag.

Edited January 19, 2010 by Darbi

[Terry Dactyll]

highlandrock..... I'm very sorry to hear about your theft and I really hope you can get some of the main pieces back..... I think you have done the right thing by thinking of posting images as this will ultimately 'devalue' these items, being 'Stolen'..... whoever sells them will have to deal with less than honest people to say the least, who will in turn rip them off..... also whoever buys them will be unable to share their collection with likeminded people incase of these being recognised so the more publicity you can bring to this the better.... maybe a thread under the heading stolen fossils could be made and locked, so they are always brought to peoples attention when they log on the forum.... I personally think this would be a good idea....These f---wits either want it all but havent got it in them to go the distance to collect and prepare such a collection, or they are purely financially motivated.... either way, bringing these fossils to public attention is a good move I feel....

Edited January 19, 2010 by Terry Dactyll

[THobern]

The seller is a great guy, so I don't really suspect that this is the cat skull. It just reminded me of the damage from another cat.

http://www.fossilsonline.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1367

[Guest Smilodon]

The seller is a great guy, so I don't really suspect that this is the cat skull. It just reminded me of the damage from another cat.

http://www.fossilsonline.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1367

I had seen this too, but it's a different genus.

[THobern]

Okay. I thought that might be the case from the name given the description of the stolen fossils, but I know nothing about the saber-toothed cats.

[Harry Pristis]

highlandrock, on 18 January 2010 - 01:35 PM, said:

Hi folks,

I'm new here, and posting for a specific purpose, not a very happy one. . . .

items stolen include: . . .

nice florida hyaenadon skull, upper all real, but lower mostly restored. much more elongated in appearance than the chinese versions.

. . . nor are there very many florida hyaenadons ... out there.

thanks,

Rich Eisenman

highlandrock@prodigy.net

Golly! Am I the only skeptic here?

Does anyone here know this collector? Why would an advanced collector with a sophisticated collection be referring to a "florida hyaenodon"? There are no records AFAIK of any hyaenodon material from Florida.

The genus Hyaenodon belongs to the creodonts, the taxon that lost the survival struggle to carnivores during the Oligocene.

Peninsular Florida was still arising from the sea as an archipelago during the Oligocene. Oligocene land mammal fossils are extremely rare and scrappy -- you'd be lucky to find a loose tooth, much less a whole skull in Florida.

I am eager to see an image of the Florida hyaenodon.

[Fossilcollector]

@Harry,

I vouch for richard,

I've done business with him many times before and he's shown me his collections, so i've seen the pieces in person that were stolen. The sabercat skull was top notch!

-YvW

[Harry Pristis]

@Harry,

I vouch for richard,

I've done business with him many times before and he's shown me his collections, so i've seen the pieces in person that were stolen. The sabercat skull was top notch!

-YvW

Well, that's a start. Thanks, YvW. Since you've seen the florida hyaenodon, can you tell us about it?

[highlandrock]

The seller is a great guy, so I don't really suspect that this is the cat skull. It just reminded me of the damage from another cat.

http://www.fossilsonline.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1367

thanks for trying, i appreciate it

not the same species or location, and that one is much larger.

however, it was interesting to learn there are other cat skulls out there with puncture wounds (not the same location, but still)

all the best

richard

[highlandrock]

hi folks, richard here again

first, thanks for all the condolances, and well wishes. I do appreciate it. and please keep on letting me know if you see anything that might be related or useful for me to know about.

next, as for the florida hyaenadon. the provenance on the piece is thus: I bought it, more than 15 years ago, from a well reputed florida dealer, who swore it was from florida, and found by people he knew and trusted. it was still in a block of matrix at the time. this was before china mammal fossils were really on-line, (definitely not from there) and the matrix did look different (more granular and marl-like) than what generally comes out of South dakota. so, i belived his location info. he didn't charge me extra for the location, so i've never really questioned it. I sent it out for prep, and when it came back first thing i noticed was the size (freakishly big) and shape (somewhat elongated, at least compared to other hyaena skulls I have seen) the lower jaw was mostly missing, and had to be restored, but the upper (including the canines) was real, and I think the size and shape are accurate to the original. interestingly enough, under the remains of the lower jaw we found a single paw and part of an arm, almost as if he died with head on his paw.

as for my own credentials, harry i understand that you might doubt me, but all i can say is you are probably not from the northeast. almost any fossil collector (who goes to shows) here in the nj/ny/pa/md/mass area has heard of highlandrock...i've been a show dealer for 20 years now, and we do 20 odd shows a year in this area. I've sold a lot of high end pieces in that time, if what i kept seems a lot, the full list of what i've sold would really make your head spin. although I did formerly trade as the 'orius group', i also exhibited at tucson for most of that same time...i was a dealer in marty zinn's fossil show before it was even his show (lol) I've never made a big deal of what i kept from all that time in business (wanted to stay low key) but there were some nice things that either never made it to my table, or didn't sell and wandered home instead. sigh. gone now, i've been shedding most of what i had left so the scumbag who did this won't have anything worth coming back for.

anyway, here is the saber cat pic. note the bite mark, and the fine grained crazing/cracks throughout the piece, they are distinctive I think.[]

here's the meso plate

and again, thanks. i have pics of some others as well, if you need/want a particular item shown.

richard

[barefootgirl]

Well it's really hard to tell anything with the picts being so blurry:(. Im very sorry for your loss though.

[Harry Pristis]

hi folks, richard here again

first, thanks for all the condolances, and well wishes. I do appreciate it. and please keep on letting me know if you see anything that might be related or useful for me to know about.

. . . next, as for the florida hyaenadon. the provenance on the piece is thus: I bought it, more than 15 years ago, from a well reputed florida dealer, who swore it was from florida, and found by people he knew and trusted. it was still in a block of matrix at the time. this was before china mammal fossils were really on-line, (definitely not from there) and the matrix did look different (more granular and marl-like) than what generally comes out of South dakota. so, i belived his location info. he didn't charge me extra for the location, so i've never really questioned it. I sent it out for prep, and when it came back first thing i noticed was the size (freakishly big) and shape (somewhat elongated, at least compared to other hyaena skulls I have seen) the lower jaw was mostly missing, and had to be restored, but the upper (including the canines) was real, and I think the size and shape are accurate to the original. interestingly enough, under the remains of the lower jaw we found a single paw and part of an arm, almost as if he died with head on his paw.

and again, thanks. i have pics of some others as well, if you need/want a particular item shown.

richard

Hello, Richard . . .

It certainly appears to be a Hyaenodon skull in your image. It certainly is not a florida hyaenodon for the reasons I've already argued. Hyaenodon is a creodont. It is not a hyaena which is a true carnivore.

I hope you have better images of your skull 'cause this image won't be of much help to us in identifying it on the black market. I think you should drop the "florida" part of your description as you seek help in recovering your skull. Some collectors will recognize the improbability of such a fossil, and it may hurt your search.

Maybe it would be useful to know the name of the Florida dealer who sold the skull to you fifteen years ago. Is he still in business? We might get to the bottom of this contradiction.

[siteseer]

I will be going to Tucson and will keep my eyes open for you. I can also contact a couple of friends who will be there early. A really nice Hoplo will stick out in a crowd and be talked about.

Yeah, like Harry, a "Florida Hyaenadon skull" didn't make sense to me either. I believe the source dealer either misspoke or was misinformed.

[Frank Menser]

Richard, I took the liberty of photoshopping a couple of your pics to bring out detail--as well as some ID photos from my own collection. Hope this helps...

Yor Mesosaur

Here is a better pic of my own specimen.

Your Hyaenadon

A Chinese Hyaenadon from my collection (sorry about the quality).

And a Adcrocuta Eximia (also Chinese). Was it more like this one?

If there is a leson to be learned from this it is that it is wise to have your 'high end' fossils properly photographed.

Edited January 20, 2010 by Frank Menser

[highlandrock]

Hi all, and thanks for the interesting discussion.

first, let me say I'm sorry for the photo quality. Honestly, those photos were never intended as ID photos of the fossils in question. Most of the photos I only have because my wife likes to take pictures of our cats, and also took some of the house in general to send to her relatives. the fossils were (in most cases) happenstance background, now trimmed out so you can see just that one thing.

so....for the people who commented that it's a good lesson to us all, to take good photos, I TOTALLY agree. I'm glad I had something, but wish I had better. hope you will all take the hint and invest an afternoon in some good, well lit, photos of your own goodies.

as for ID of the pieces. here is what I think makes the pieces identifiable, regardless of photos.:

1) the meso is a double, and an unusual layout. i've seen a small number of other doubles, all were lengthwise doubles, one long reptile above the other. rarely were they touching at all, much less so obviously entertwined (look at the tail detail) and the shape of the piece (triangular) is also unusual.

2) the hoplo bite mark is visible, even on the bad photo. it is in the upper left corner, and appears as a dark indentation. very few hoplo's will have this mark in exactly this place. fewer still will have all original sabers, and all real jaws and teeth, besides, there is no 'smoothing' of the skull fractures...many prepped pieces have the cracks disguised, smoothed with putty or whatever, this one has left them all visible, it hides nothing.

3) the hyaenadon (or whatever he really is) has distinctive upper teeth...note the discoloration pattern. it's also pretty large, and the lower front teeth restoration is, well, mediocre...shape of front two lower teeth is so-so. sorry, I won't talk badly about the dealer who sold him, he's dead now, and not able to defend himself. maybe it's from florida, maybe not, but I do think he believed it was. bear in mind the time frame also, chinese mammal skulls were virtually unknown at that time in the general market. plenty of keichs and eggs, but skulls of anything from there were just barely beginning to be available.

4) as for the chinese ichy (probably mixa) I have no photo of it, but the preparator is ready and willing to check out any leads you might find. she will be in tucson, and would know the piece for certain if she saw it...even be able to prove it is mine. I'll relay to her any leads you might get, thanks.

other items, hard to know if it is mine or not, in most cases. only by context...ie if someone suddenly has exactly that combo of fossils, or has one of the top pieces present.

once again, thanks for listening, thanks for the support, and hope we can band together to put the scumbag who did this where he belongs.