RCFossils Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I am planning a collecting trip out West this Summer. I was hoping to spend a day or two searching for helicoprion material in either Wyoming or idaho. I know the material is rare but have heard that there are some Permian exposures where quite a few examples have been collected. For those of you who are not familiar with the Helicoprion shark, it is only known from its bizzare tooth whorl whose placement on the body is still being debated. I know we have several collectors on the forum from that area of the country and any help would be greatly appreciated. I am attaqching a picture of a tooth whorl for those who have not seen one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I have never chased the elusive Helicoprion, but I hear they are in this area. Did you see the post by the new member form Idaho who is doing his undergrad senior thesis on H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I can't help you RC, but that specimen is stunning. I've seen various artistic conceptions of the shark and all look as alien as elephants to me. The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I might be able to help! The helicoprion in the image is a reproduction of the original Helicoprion Bessonovi that was found by Karpinsky in 1899. That is the holotype! As far as collecting you need to make friends with some one from one of the phosphate mines. In this area the fossils come in the form of concretions that are part of the waste products of phosphate mining. If you or anyone wants to see some amazing specimens I can give you a private tour of the collections at the Idaho Museum of Natural History. We have over 20 specimens here of various sizes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCFossils Posted February 15, 2011 Author Share Posted February 15, 2011 (edited) Thanks for the quick response. Yes, i have heard that collecting in the phosphate mines would be the best place to search. Any idea how difficult it might be to get access to a phosphate quarry? I know in my state some quarries will allow collecting but a lot of times it depends on who you know. Glad to hear that you are doing some work on these fascinating fossils. I have always had an interest in some of these bizzare forms and recently acquired a nice edestus jaw from Illinois. I would love to take you up on your offer to stop by the museum. I will be heading down I-15 which will pass right by your location. Edited February 15, 2011 by RCFossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I have permission to collect at the Monsanto mine in Soda Springs, ID. I got permission because of my research and being affiliated with the university here. I spent a lot of time looking through concretions and never found a helicoprion, but we did find some cool stuff including a huge ammonoid(see picture). I wouldn't hurt to contact the geologist at the mine sites and see if they will let you look. The area that will have the fossils is away from the actual mine so it is reasonably safe. The museum is about a mile off of I15 so send me a message when you are in the area and we'll set it up. The museum is in Pocatello, ID. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCFossils Posted February 15, 2011 Author Share Posted February 15, 2011 Thanks Jesse, It looks like i will be out your way towards the end of June. I will contact you a few weeks out just to make sure that you will have some time available. In the meantime, I will try and get a hold of a few of the phosphate mines in the area. Thanks for the great information. How bizarre that there were 2 seperate helicoprion posts. Definately a Fossil Forum first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 yes... two helicoprion posts in one day, after never having seen any. Anyway... Jesse, how much did that thing weigh? How'd you move it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nandomas Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I am planning a collecting trip out West this Summer. I was hoping to spend a day or two searching for helicoprion material in either Wyoming or idaho. I know the material is rare but have heard that there are some Permian exposures where quite a few examples have been collected. For those of you who are not familiar with the Helicoprion shark, it is only known from its bizzare tooth whorl whose placement on the body is still being debated. I know we have several collectors on the forum from that area of the country and any help would be greatly appreciated. I am attaqching a picture of a tooth whorl for those who have not seen one. Please stop to post those Heli phboto... you can kill me!!!! :P I was so lucky to see 4 of Helicoprion specimens: the first was in the backstage of L.A. Natural History Museum the second is exposed at new State Museum in Vernal, Utah the third specimen I saw is in the new Marine Evolution room at Smithsonian, D.C. the 4th was a countercast exposed in an elementary school in Idaho... it was featured on Ray Troll book "Criusing the fossil highway". Sadly the Idaho Museum was closed for remodeling at that time. Trying hard to back to Idaho Museum this spring for my paleozoic sharks project... p.s. rumors says that the Russian holotype did a not official trip to North Florida in the last years ;) RCF, your dream is my dream Erosion... will be my epitaph! http://www.paleonature.org/ https://fossilnews.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 (edited) Yes, there is a story behind those rumors. I heard that after it was revealed that the specimen was the holotype, a well-known shark researcher ended up delivering the specimen in person to the Russian museum. Maybe twenty years ago, I heard there was a member of the Fossils for Fun club who found a Helicoprion whorl at a site near Las Vegas, Nevada. P.S. There is an article by Richard Ellis on Helicoprion in the March 2001 issue of Natural History magazine p.s. rumors says that the Russian holotype did a not official trip to North Florida in the last years ;) Edited March 2, 2011 by siteseer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nandomas Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 (edited) I might be able to help! The helicoprion in the image is a reproduction of the original Helicoprion Bessonovi that was found by Karpinsky in 1899. That is the holotype! As far as collecting you need to make friends with some one from one of the phosphate mines. In this area the fossils come in the form of concretions that are part of the waste products of phosphate mining. If you or anyone wants to see some amazing specimens I can give you a private tour of the collections at the Idaho Museum of Natural History. We have over 20 specimens here of various sizes! Today at lunch time I visited the new Museum in Pocatello on my way up to Yellowstone. No Helicoprion were in display, :notfair: I was so disappointed, when a very kind lady, seeing my tears, shoved me a swirl treasure she had in the office. :thumbsu: I did some photos I will show you soon. p.s. Jesse I thougth you were in Idaho Falls, right now I am realizing maybe you work in Pocatello. and that maybe ammonoid showed in the Idaho Museum of Natural History was the same you posted on this Forum Cheers Nando Edited May 6, 2011 by Nandomas Erosion... will be my epitaph! http://www.paleonature.org/ https://fossilnews.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nandomas Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Here it is... and guys, that's my hand touching the Helicoprion Erosion... will be my epitaph! http://www.paleonature.org/ https://fossilnews.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 It's hypnotic.... I'm becoming dizzy and delirious.... I must have a Helicoprion.... I must have a Helicoprion.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micropterus101 Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 We find these all the time here in washington. I didnt know there rare? Theres so many there not really a big deal. Ussually we dig through them to get at the crab concretions. Ive never really been into sharks teeth. . fossil crabs website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Today at lunch time I visited the new Museum in Pocatello on my way up to Yellowstone. No Helicoprion were in display, :notfair: I was so disappointed, when a very kind lady, seeing my tears, shoved me a swirl treasure she had in the office. :thumbsu: I did some photos I will show you soon. p.s. Jesse I thougth you were in Idaho Falls, right now I am realizing maybe you work in Pocatello. and that maybe ammonoid showed in the Idaho Museum of Natural History was the same you posted on this Forum Cheers Nando I had forgotten about this post The nautiloid as it has now been identified is in fact in the gallery at the museum now! I had the pleasure of prepping it for display! Nando, I'm not sure where you are located but if you swing by the museum Wed-Fri I will give you a tour of the Helicoprion corner in the basement. I work in the gallery building a Arctodus simus mount on those days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nandomas Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I had forgotten about this post The nautiloid as it has now been identified is in fact in the gallery at the museum now! I had the pleasure of prepping it for display! Nando, I'm not sure where you are located but if you swing by the museum Wed-Fri I will give you a tour of the Helicoprion corner in the basement. I work in the gallery building a Arctodus simus mount on those days! Thanks Jesse, I live in Italy. If all will be ok, there is a good chance I will be again in Usa next spring. It will be a pleasure do Helicoprion tour in Pocalello. Nando Erosion... will be my epitaph! http://www.paleonature.org/ https://fossilnews.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I spoke with the lady you did when you were here. I have spoken with her weekly for the entire time I have been working on the project and she never mentioned that she had a H. in her office !! That is indeed a beautiful specimen! Rebecca spoke highly of you and said that you and your wife were great people so I hope you get a chance to come back, I'm sorry that I missed your visit. I was probably lurking in my corner of the basement doing who knows what! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nandomas Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 I spoke with the lady you did when you were here. I have spoken with her weekly for the entire time I have been working on the project and she never mentioned that she had a H. in her office !! That is indeed a beautiful specimen! Rebecca spoke highly of you and said that you and your wife were great people so I hope you get a chance to come back, I'm sorry that I missed your visit. I was probably lurking in my corner of the basement doing who knows what! :D I also am sorry I missed you. Next year sure we will meet there Nando Erosion... will be my epitaph! http://www.paleonature.org/ https://fossilnews.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VisionXray23 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 We find these all the time here in washington. I didnt know there rare? Theres so many there not really a big deal. Ussually we dig through them to get at the crab concretions. Ive never really been into sharks teeth. . REALLY ! Dig one up for me and ill buy it from you. i'm sure if you mut up a helicoprion for sale you will get way more for it than any crab! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 REALLY ! Dig one up for me and ill buy it from you. i'm sure if you mut up a helicoprion for sale you will get way more for it than any crab! Uh, that was probably a joke "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DardS8Br Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 On 5/5/2011 at 11:45 PM, micropterus101 said: We find these all the time here in washington. I didnt know there rare? Theres so many there not really a big deal. Ussually we dig through them to get at the crab concretions. Ive never really been into sharks teeth. . Pics or it didn’t happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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