Kehbe Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 I found this fossil in Northwestern Missouri but it may have been brought here from somewhere else as there was a lot of gravel in the area I found it that did not look native to the area. I took this picture on a piece of graph paper with 1/4" grid but the actual dimensions are as follows. This piece is 3/8" in thickness at it's thickest point and is 1-3/8" long x 1" wide. the circles are from largest to smallest, 1/4", 3/16", 1/8" and 3/32". The base (matrix?) material is somewhat "chalky" and the outlines of the circles appear to have tiny flecks of crystal in them, if that makes any sense. I would have to guess, and it is only a guess, that it is plant material or could it be marine. Thanks for looking! If I need to take more pictures I can. It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change. Charles Darwin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas-Tunnel Rat Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Not a clue Graptolite Im sure someone has a better answer. PUBLICATIONS Dallas Paleontology Society Occasional Papers Vol. 9 2011 "Pennsylvanian Stratigraphy and Paleoecology of Outcrops in Jacksboro, Texas" Author Texas Paleontology Society Feb, 2011 "Index Fossils and You" A primer on how to utilize fossils to assist in relative age dating strata" Author Quotes "Beer, Bacon, and Bivalves!" "Say NO to illegal fossil buying / selling" "They belong in a museum." Education Associates of Science - 2011 Bachelors of Science (Geology & Biology) - 2012 est. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullsnake Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 (edited) Kind of looks like a partially cross-sectioned internal mould of a gastropod, the crystals being calcite. Edited October 3, 2011 by Bullsnake Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Hello, and welcome to the Forum. Any chance of pictures from other angles? My guess is that we are looking at something in cross-section, .. possibly a gastropod? Interesting, whatever it is . Regards, Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Kind of looks like a partially cross-sectioned internal mould of a gastropod, the crystals being calcite. Great minds, Steve... Regards, Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kehbe Posted October 3, 2011 Author Share Posted October 3, 2011 Hello, and welcome to the Forum. Any chance of pictures from other angles? My guess is that we are looking at something in cross-section, .. possibly a gastropod? Interesting, whatever it is . Regards, I will take more pictures from different angles tomorrow and post. It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change. Charles Darwin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kehbe Posted October 3, 2011 Author Share Posted October 3, 2011 Great minds, Steve... Regards, You mean it is a snail shell cut in half like this picture or cut through it on one plane or another, right? It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change. Charles Darwin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwigia Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 (edited) You got it! Here's another mind thinking alike. But it would rather have a turritella shape than the type you showed unless it's just a half. Or maybe not, since we should also be seeing the spiral wall on the inside. Or maybe it's just from the edge of a flat spiral one, now that I've thought about it some more. It could also be the cross section from half of some kind of spiral cephalopod since the circles dwindle in size going down, but I also tend to gastropod. There are a number of possibilities anyway. The best solution is to free it up from the matrix if you've got the equipment. Roger Edited October 3, 2011 by Ludwigia Greetings from the Lake of Constance. Roger http://www.steinkern.de/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Would be most helpful to see large cropped "Original" (not re-sized) images taken outside utilizing full sunlight Flash from the Past (Show Us Your Fossils)MAPS Fossil Show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 (edited) You mean it is a snail shell cut in half like this picture or cut through it on one plane or another, right? Roger is correct. See my link---------> HERE. and HERE. Regards, Edited October 3, 2011 by Fossildude19 1 Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 image from Ludwigia's gallery: My link Flash from the Past (Show Us Your Fossils)MAPS Fossil Show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Something about it doesn't look right to me for a cross-sectioned Turritella. My first thought was that the upper (larger) two round things and the 'linkage' between them constituted a cross-sectioned coiled cephalopod with a similar thing coincidentally juxtaposed below, but I'm not sure of that either. Best to wait for better pics I guess.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Something about it doesn't look right to me for a cross-sectioned Turritella. My first thought was that the upper (larger) two round things and the 'linkage' between them constituted a cross-sectioned coiled cephalopod with a similar thing coincidentally juxtaposed below, but I'm not sure of that either. Best to wait for better pics I guess.. I agree...I don't think it's Turritella but the mystery shape is kinda sorta on the same concept and I too am looking forward to seeing some HQ images taken outside utilizing natural full sunlight to clearly see the detail :pic: Flash from the Past (Show Us Your Fossils)MAPS Fossil Show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkfoam Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Yes, I think more photos will help. In the mean time I'm thinking maybe its a cross section of the sponge Girtyocoelia but my knowledge of the stratigraphy of Northwestern Missouri is pretty limited. JKFoam The Eocene is my favorite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) Yes, I think more photos will help. In the mean time I'm thinking maybe its a cross section of the sponge Girtyocoelia but my knowledge of the stratigraphy of Northwestern Missouri is pretty limited. JKFoam Cross section of the sponge Girtyocoelia ... Never thought about this variable Website link: Click Here Although the sponge Girtyocoelia has some interesting similarities... I don't think Girtyocoelia is known from Missouri . Edited October 4, 2011 by Indy 1 Flash from the Past (Show Us Your Fossils)MAPS Fossil Show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Edonihce Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Yes, I think more photos will help. In the mean time I'm thinking maybe its a cross section of the sponge Girtyocoelia but my knowledge of the stratigraphy of Northwestern Missouri is pretty limited. JKFoam Well, honestly, sponge was the first thing that came to my mind when I saw the image in the OP. So, this is as good a guess as any mollusk at this point. The size ("the circles are from largest to smallest, 1/4", 3/16", 1/8" and 3/32"") really seems to fit Girtyocoelia as well. I could totally see the gastropod thing going on there, except for the fact that the individual round things don't appear to taper or twist, but seem fairly regular in their roundness as separate pieces from each other. Again though, better pics will probably help a lot. . ____________________ scale in avatar is millimeters ____________________ Come visit Sandi, the 'Fossil Journey Cruiser' ____________________ WIPS (the Western Interior Paleontological Society - http://www.westernpaleo.org) ____________________ "Being genetically cursed with an almost inhuman sense of curiosity and wonder, I'm hard-wired to investigate even the most unlikely, uninteresting (to others anyway) and irrelevant details; often asking hypothetical questions from many angles in an attempt to understand something more thoroughly." -- Mr. Edonihce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniraptoran Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 well, my guess is either a funky gastropod cross section or we are not alone on this planet;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kehbe Posted October 6, 2011 Author Share Posted October 6, 2011 (edited) First of all I would like to thank all of you for your input and thoughts on this piece. After hearing your ideas I am leaning toward the 'gertyocoelia beedi' sponge idea. That would explain why there is no evidence of it on the back side of the matrix. I took some more pictures from different angles but had to crop them to be able to upload them here. Other than that I did not change them in any way and tried to get as clear a picture as possible in outdoor light. Hope this helps. Thanks again! South Clinton county near Lathrop Missouri. Edited October 6, 2011 by Kehbe It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change. Charles Darwin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 (edited) I am leaning toward the 'gertyocoelia beedi' sponge idea.... Very good pictures...Thanks Originally, I questioned if Girtyocoelia have been reported from Missoui. Just double checked and found they have been reported from MO - My link The sponge Girtyocoelia appears to me to be the only shape that seems to match the mystery fossil. Will be following this thread to read what others have to say Collected in North East Missouri...Large area In order to determine the Geology (time period)... Can you be more precise? IE County and nearest city . Edited October 6, 2011 by Indy Flash from the Past (Show Us Your Fossils)MAPS Fossil Show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 (edited) I think that Girtyocoelia in cross section is the best fit. I had never heard of this sponge before, and am glad to learn something new here. Regards, Edited October 6, 2011 by Fossildude19 Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Aha! Looks like 'Case closed'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Attached is a cross-section of Girtyocoelia from the Treatise volume of Porifera. The spheroidal segments connected by a continuous, narrow, central tube or cloaca is fairly conclusive proof. Having said that, it should be mentioned that there are a few other North American genera described that exhibit the same morphology. Congratulations on a fantastic fossil sponge! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Attached is a cross-section of Girtyocoelia from the Treatise volume of Porifera. The spheroidal segments connected by a continuous, narrow, central tube or cloaca is fairly conclusive proof. Having said that, it should be mentioned that there are a few other North American genera described that exhibit the same morphology. Congratulations on a fantastic fossil sponge! Cross-section of Girtyocoelia from the Treatise volume of Porifera Impressive reference for the ID card Thanks, piranha Flash from the Past (Show Us Your Fossils)MAPS Fossil Show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kehbe Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 Hey I want to thank all you guys for your help with this ID. I am going to try a little harder to figure them out on my own first before posting for help. I wish I had kept better records because I have been going through some of the stuff I have found over the years and I remember thinking to myself many times, "Heck, I'll remember where I found this!" Yeah right, famous last words! But seriously, thanks again! It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change. Charles Darwin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 (edited) Locality and Geology is very important information to know when attempting identification If Geology is not known...then the State and County and nearest City can be posted...With this information...Geology may be determined. More specific information about the locality where the Girtyocoelia was collected would be of interest...Because I have never found any in Missouri . Edited October 7, 2011 by Indy Flash from the Past (Show Us Your Fossils)MAPS Fossil Show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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