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Do you know of any cave systems within Mesozoic vertebrate-bearing limestones?
Paleoworld-101 posted a topic in Questions & Answers
A bit of a random question, but i was watching a couple videos about some of the biggest cave systems on earth, and it got me thinking that almost all of the major cave systems i know about are formed by running water slowly etching away passages within Palaeozoic (or older) marine limestones. The walls of these caves usually contain a range of marine invertebrate fossils such as corals, crinoids, stromatoporoids etc. However, there are seemingly much fewer natural cave systems that run through younger limestones (Mesozoic or Cenozoic) containing vertebrate fossils within their walls. What are some examples that people here are familiar with? I'm not talking about instances where the cave system formed first, and then vertebrates later entered the caves and became trapped, causing their bones to accumulate within the caverns (e.g., like at Naracoorte Caves and on the Nullarbor Plain in Australia). I'm specifically talking about instances where limestone deposits containing vertebrate fossils were already laid down, and then afterwards, a natural cave system was subsequently formed through the bone-bearing limestones. I'm also not talking about artificial 'caves' or tunnels formed by human mining or digging operations. I did some googling and found both the Malaval Cave and Castelbouc Cave systems in France, which contain Earliest Jurassic and Middle Jurassic dinosaur footprints, respectively: https://digitalcommons.usf.edu/ijs/vol47/iss1/3/ https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02724634.2019.1728286?journalCode=ujvp20 There is also Riversleigh in Queensland, Australia, which has some caves carved out of Miocene limestones containing the fossils of marsupials, bats, birds and reptiles. What others are there? Do any natural caves contain dinosaur or marine reptile bones within their walls?- 1 reply
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- cave fossils
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Tips for Fossil hunting in the St. Louis Area of Missouri
Joseph Fossil posted a topic in General Fossil Discussion
Recently, I've been thinking about conducting an exploratory fossil hunting trip in the St. Louis area of Missouri. I've never been there before, but I've heard there is a lot of caves and limestone outcrops near the city. I've also heard there is a decent amount of Ordovician and Mississippian fossils in the area. I'm just wondering if anyone's been fossil hunting in the St. Louis area before and what fossils can be found there?- 22 replies
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Here's something I explore frequently. This is a section of the Niagara Escarpment in Central Wisconsin. It consists of Silurian aged sediments, predominantly dolomite and limestone formations. It extends for hundreds of miles and can be found as far from here as New York. This area is locally known as The Ledge, and is as treacherous as it is beautiful. People have actually died here, drawn in by The Ledge, only to stumble over. Caution is advised if visiting. I have navigated and explored this labyrinth like formation my entire life. However some depths I dare not travel to. This ladder pictured above, is the only human made structure I've found here. I have yet to see where it goes. If you ever run through Wisconsin, I highly recommend you look at our ancient attractions. The Ledge represents only the tip of the iceberg here in Wisconsin.
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Fossils of New Vulture Species Found in Cubaby Enrico de Lazaro, Previous, Sci News, Jan 13, 2021 "A new species of small vulture that lived during the Quaternary period in the Greater Antilles has been identified from fossils found in western Cuba." The paper is: Suárez, W. and Olson, S.L., 2020. A new fossil vulture (Cathartidae: Cathartes) from Quaternary asphalt and cave deposits in Cuba. Bulletin of the British Ornithologists’ Club, 140(3), pp.335-343. Yours, Paul H.
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- artemisa province
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Volcanic origin for Younger Dryas geochemical anomalies ca. 12,900 cal B.P.
Oxytropidoceras posted a topic in Fossil News
Texas cave sediment upends meteorite explanation for global cooling by Baylor University August 1, 2020 https://phys.org/news/2020-07-texas-cave-sediment-upends-meteorite.html The paper is: Sun, N, Brandon, A.D., Forman, S.L., Waters, M.R. and Befus, K.S., 2020. Volcanic origin for Younger Dryas geochemical anomalies ca. 12,900 cal B.P. Science Advances, 6(31), eaax8587 https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/31/eaax8587 Related papers: Holliday, V.T., Bartlein, P.J., Scott, A.C. and Marlon, J.R., 2020. Extraordinary biomass-burning episode and impact winter triggered by the Younger Dryas cosmic impact∼ 12,800 years ago, parts 1 and 2: a discussion. The Journal of Geology, 128(1), pp.69-94. https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/706264 Wolbach, W.S., Ballard, J.P., Mayewski, P.A., Kurbatov, A., Bunch, T.E., LeCompte, M.A., Adedeji, V., Israde-Alcántara, I., Firestone, R.B., Mahaney, W.C. and Melott, A.L., 2020. Extraordinary Biomass-Burning Episode and Impact Winter Triggered by the Younger Dryas Cosmic Impact∼ 12,800 Years Ago: A Reply. The Journal of Geology, 128(1), pp.95-107. https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/706265 Yours, Paul H.-
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- caves
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Somehow, I find this terribly sad. https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200128-how-did-the-last-neanderthals-live
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- caves
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Recently I went to a property in NSW with hundreds of limestone caves after a member of our fossil club invited us on a trip there. I had never even considered going caving before, caves terrify me, but for fossils? Why not. The particular cave we went down was relatively easy, 11m straight down but there was a convenient tree limb above it. Not a fan of abseiling, but again, will do it for fossils. There are better caves in the area for fossils but didn't get around to going down them as we only had half a day, so maybe next time. Once at the bottom of the hole which was the opening, we went down into the actual cave. It was an amazing place; a lot of fantastic limestone formations in a small cavern with a number of other passages and holes we could go down. One of the places we found Pleistocene fossils was under the floor of the main cavern. A wide but shallow cavern was underneath that had bones cemented to the roof. Most had eroded out however. Another passage led down a couple of metres to a different fossil deposit which is where we collected from. A tight squeeze was needed to get through to the face of the deposit so its not a place for the claustrophobic. Heres a photo of that particular face, and some bones that had eroded out of it as well as modern animals that fall in much the same way as their Pleistocene predecessors. A layer of flowstone had formed over the face. The bones here were quite busted and fragmentary as many people had been in here before us and stood on them. I only collected teeth and jaws as they are much more interesting than fragmentary bones IMO. here are some of our finds: Macropus spp. . Vombatus sp. Lizard, perhaps a Tiliqua sp.? We also found a few other things which I will post after they're identified. Also, here is a paper with some more info on the area. And note that these were collected with permission. Thanks,
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"Cradle of Humankind" fossils can now be dated Maddie Bender, Earth Magazine, February 5, 2019 https://www.earthmagazine.org/article/cradle-humankind-fossils-can-now-be-dated The paper is: Pickering, R., Herries, A.I., Woodhead, J.D., Hellstrom, J.C., Green, H.E., Paul, B., Ritzman, T., Strait, D.S., Schoville, B.J. and Hancox, P.J., 2019. U–Pb-dated flowstones restrict South African early hominin record to dry climate phases. Nature, 565(7738), p.226. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-018-0711-0 A related paper is: Dirks, P.H., Berger, L.R., Roberts, E.M., Kramers, J.D., Hawks, J., Randolph-Quinney, P.S., Elliott, M., Musiba, C.M., Churchill, S.E., de Ruiter, D.J. and Schmid, P., 2015. Geological and taphonomic context for the new hominin species Homo naledi from the Dinaledi Chamber, South Africa. Elife, 4, p.e09561. https://cdn.elifesciences.org/articles/09561/elife-09561-v1.pdf Yours, Paul H.
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- australopithecus africanus
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Fossils Reveal Why Caribbean Mammal Did Not Become Extinct
Oxytropidoceras posted a topic in Fossil News
Fossils reveal how bizarre mammal beat extinction Society of Vertebrate Paleontology, August 24, 2017 https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/08/170824182708.htm https://phys.org/news/2017-08-fossils-reveal-bizarre-mammal-extinction.html https://phys.org/news/2017-08-caribbean-mammal-extinctions-spurs-renewed.html Yours, Paul H. -
Using DNA to Look for Extinct Humans in Ancient Cave Mud
Oxytropidoceras posted a topic in Fossil News
Mud DNA means we can detect ancient humans even without fossils, New Scientist, April 27, 2017 https://www.newscientist.com/article/2129259-mud-dna-means-we-can-detect-ancient-humans-even-without-fossils/ Photos: Looking for Extinct Humans in Ancient Cave Mud By Jeanna Bryner, Live Science, April 27, 2017 http://www.livescience.com/58872-neanderthal-dna-found-in-ancient-cave-mud.html http://www.livescience.com/58873-dna-from-extinct-humans-photos.html The paper is: Slon, V., C. Hopfe, C. L. Weiß, and many others, 2017, Neandertal and Denisovan DNA from Pleistocene sediments Science 27 Apr 2017: eaam9695, DOI: 10.1126/science.aam9695 http://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2017/04/26/science.aam9695 Yours, Paul H.