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Peace River Unknown Fossils


Fossilized Dad

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Hi Everyone,

 

My 10 year old daughter and I went to the Peace River and found lots of fun stuff, including turtle shell, bones of many kinds, probably a couple hundred shark teeth, some horse teeth, and then a few mystery items. Images 1 and 2 show what looks like some type of body armor--didn't seem to match glyptodont, so we are puzzled.

 

Image 3 shows a large predator tooth of some kind. Once again stumped. In images 4 and 5 you can see the tooth is in two pieces. I found the first piece in one seive, then in just the next seive, I found the second piece and they matched up perfectly to form a 2" piece of a large tooth. Doesn't seem like dire wolf or a big cat. Don't think it's dolphin as most specimen were around 1". Perhaps whale?

 

In Images 6 and 7, we think it may be a beaver incisor that is broken and is missing some enamel. The part of enamel that is showing is tapered to a worn point. 

 

Images 9 and 10 show another unknown. We aren't clear on what this is. Image 11 shows all the pieces together on a darker surface, so more details may show up for you.

 

What do you think? Any ideas would help as we've looked through our fossil books and on the internet.

 

thanks,

 

Lloyd

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3.JPG

4.JPG

5.JPG

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9.JPG

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11.JPG

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Welcome to the Forum, Fossilized Dad.  You'll get more response and reliable IDs if you post clearer images.

 

Do you have editing software that came with your camera or with your scanner? Use the image-editing software (or download shareware from the Internet).

You can be as creative as you want to be with the editing software, but the following basic things will improve anyone's images:

GROUP IMAGES of more than a few fossils are not effective. The more individual fossils in an image, the greater the amount of table-top is in the image. Viewers cannot see the details of a fossil that might take up less than five percent of the total image. Photograph a single fossil (or two or three, if they're tiny), and post that image.

 

DON'T OBSCURE details of the fossil by pinching it between your fingers. If you want to use fingers to provide scale, support the fossil from below ... that is, on top of your fingers. To improve the focus, rest your hand with the fossil on a stable surface like a table or desk.

 

SCALE is important.  Provide measurements of your fossil in millimeters and inches for the widest audience.  Don't use a coin for scale; there are many foreign subscribers who don't know your coin's size.

 

LIGHT IT UP. Use as much ambient light as possible to reduce shadows...two light sources are a minimum. Eliminate yellowed images caused by tungsten filament bulbs by switching to the new compact flourescent bulbs. CFLs come in a "daylight" (6500K) version that you can use in any (non-dimming) fixture and produce very little heat. Some LEDs produce a near-daylight effect.

 

ELIMINATE SHADOWS by elevating the fossil on a glass or colorless plastic stage a couple of inches above the background. Illuminate the fossil AND THE BACKGROUND in this configuration. There are numerous things around the house to use for this purpose, from scrap window-glass to disposable plastic food/drink containers.

BRIGHTEN AND CONTRAST. BRIGHTEN the image until the fossil appears slightly washed, then adjust the CONTRAST until the fossil is bright and sharp and is a good color-match. Practice this until you get a feel for it.

CROP, CROP, CROP. Again, use the image-editing software to crop the image to only what is pertinent. Leave only a narrow margin around the fossil. The more of your kitchen counter-top in the image, the smaller the fossil image will be.

REDUCE THE FILE SIZE. The images directly from a camera may be too large for posting directly to a forum, or you may be severely limited in the number of images you can post. You can constrain the proportions of your image to produce exactly the size that works best (I routinely use 700 Kb - 1.0 Mb for my images now). I save in JPEG format.

 

 

armadillo_osteoderm_marginal.JPG

armadillomarginal.jpg

bone_unid_nuchal_D.JPG

tortoise_spurs.JPG

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Fossilized Dad

Thanks for the prompt to make the images clearer and our apologies as we did hurry them last night to get them out for folks to see. Today we took the time to photograph them a little better. I'll attach them below.

This is the tooth that I found in two pieces in two separate sifts.

PR1.JPG

PR2.JPG

Here is the one that could be a beaver incisor as our best guess.

PR3.JPG

PR4.JPG

PR5.JPG

This is some kind of scute, we think, but it's unclear as the bottom tapers and the top doesn't match osteoderm photos we have completely.

PR6.JPG

PR7.JPG

This one is intriguing and a definite unknown.

PR8.JPG

PR9.JPG

PR10.JPG

Finally, what we think is a barracuda tooth. It's about the right size (1/2").

Thanks everyone!

PR11.JPG

PR12.JPG

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Harry Pristis

The second object looks to me to be a fragment of enamel plate from a mammoth tooth.  There is a bit of cementum still attached -- the highly polished stuff.

The last object does appear to be a barracuda or wahoo tooth.

 

What would enhance the chance of more identifications are lateral, basal, and

 broken-edge views.  These would add perspective to a 2-dimension view of a 3-dimension object.

 

fish_jaw_wahoo_barracuda.thumb.JPG.48a56aaf845295a2e4154ede51840b0d.JPG

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Fossilized Dad

Thanks Harry, We never would have guessed Mammoth. My daughter is glued to the website awaiting replies and looking at other pages!

 

Here are some more views of the tooth taken apart at the break--from above and below and also showing the broken middle.

PRv23.JPG

PRv24.JPG

Here are two lateral views of the "armor plate"

PRv25.JPG

PRv26.JPG

Finally two lateral views of the unknown fossil. 

PRv21.JPG

PRv22.JPG

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Harry Pristis

I can guess about one of these specimens:  The "armor" is likely to be an osteoderm from a giant tortoise, Hesperotudo sp.

 

tortoise_osteoderms_comp_LI.jpg.eb7150bdd0e2c0992add9a3558fb8623.jpg

 

osteoderms_limb_31.JPG.2c3c20ac99af8cfd9e54a8d81693ce72.JPG

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This looks like a barnacle steinkern to me.

PR10.thumb.JPG.9cedf9577a4795e5104d1e51da6f1a99.JPG.f195856d0c0385af9ebbe40f4d15aae0.JPG

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Shellseeker
On 7/21/2021 at 9:05 PM, Fossilized Dad said:

My 10 year old daughter and I went to the Peace River and found lots of fun stuff, including turtle shell, bones of many kinds, probably a couple hundred shark teeth, some horse teeth, and then a few mystery items. Images 1 and 2 show what looks like some type of body armor--didn't seem to match glyptodont, so we are puzzled.

:thumbsu::default_clap2::default_clap2:

 

Welcome to TFF  and congratulations !!!!  You have cracked the code! We have had the summer rains and in most places , the Peace river is fast and deep, which makes it challenging even for the most experienced. Most people who attempt what you have done this time of year fail and sometimes get a negative impression of the river I love.

I know it is challenging because I was out hunting yesterday and you matched most of my finds.   

Let me focus on your canine..

At a projected size of the full tooth at 2 plus inches,  there are only a few choices..

It could be whale and even dolphin ( I have a couple of dolphin over 2 inches).  I know a lot about whale/dolphin teeth in the Peace River, and this very unlikely  to be whale.

I think it most resembles cat... Jaguar or slightly more likely Puma concolor ( based on robustness).

This is an opinion of someone who has found millions of fossils in the Peace River over 13 years.. Cat leads the possibilities at about 35% in my mind

EDITED to add photos.

I was considering these finds with my comments.

BrokenCat.jpg.c87589d12cf2ec8a2de8e08d974dc7b0.jpgUnknownCanine.jpg.39e2807986cca97323fe0b12d5c22ea9.jpg

 

 

Edited by Shellseeker
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Fossilized Dad
12 hours ago, old bones said:

This looks like a barnacle steinkern to me.

PR10.thumb.JPG.9cedf9577a4795e5104d1e51da6f1a99.JPG.f195856d0c0385af9ebbe40f4d15aae0.JPG

14 hours ago, Harry Pristis said:

I can guess about one of these specimens:  The "armor" is likely to be an osteoderm from a giant tortoise, Hesperotudo sp.

 

tortoise_osteoderms_comp_LI.jpg.eb7150bdd0e2c0992add9a3558fb8623.jpg

 

osteoderms_limb_31.JPG.2c3c20ac99af8cfd9e54a8d81693ce72.JPG

these do look much thicker in cross section than other osteogenesis. Seems like a logical choice. 

This is great. Agreed that this is a barnacle steinkern now that you’ve shown us. Not in our ID books. Thanks. 

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FranzBernhard

Note to photography: It is relatively difficult to obtain good pics from very dark objects*.  I for myself, I am generally using a nearly black background (well, its a black pant...), irrespective the color of the object photographed. There is not much contrast with dark objects then, but this does not matter to me. I find a dark object and bright background more disturbing.

*There are methods to whiten the objects physically and reversibly, but this is a thing mostly for professionals.

 

15 hours ago, Fossilized Dad said:

My daughter is glued to the website awaiting replies

:dinothumb:

Congrats!!

Franz Bernhard

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Fossilized Dad
28 minutes ago, Shellseeker said:

:thumbsu::default_clap2::default_clap2:

 

Welcome to TFF  and congratulations !!!!  You have cracked the code! We have had the summer rains and in most places , the Peace river is fast and deep, which makes it challenging even for the most experienced. Most people who attempt what you have done this time of year fail and sometimes get a negative impression of the river I love.

I know it is challenging because I was out hunting yesterday and you matched most of my finds.   

Let me focus on your canine..

At a projected size of the full tooth at 2 plus inches,  there are only a few choices..

It could be whale and even dolphin ( I have a couple of dolphin over 2 inches).  I know a lot about whale/dolphin teeth in the Peace River, and this very unlikely  to be whale.

I think it most resembles cat... Jaguar or slightly more likely Puma concolor ( based on robustness).

This is an opinion of someone who has found millions of fossils in the Peace River over 13 years.. Cat leads the possibilities at about 35% in my mind

EDITED to add photos.

I was considering these finds with my comments.

BrokenCat.jpg.c87589d12cf2ec8a2de8e08d974dc7b0.jpgUnknownCanine.jpg.39e2807986cca97323fe0b12d5c22ea9.jpg

 

 

Seems like a reasonable fit based on the pictures you show. The pieces we found would be the lower portion of the tooth which is why it doesn’t curve. 

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