Raistlin Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Today I stopped by a fishing hole that a river cuts through that is known to have given up a few ice age fossils. I saw an exposed sand bank and decide to check it out. Well I found some bone fragments. They do not smell of burnt hair when tested, in fact they do not smell at all. The bone structure shows clear under a micro scope though. I guess my question is would someone be able to tell what the bone came from even if there are no identifible shapes? These fragments are just that fragments. I have found three pieces that fit together and the best I can tell is that they are from a large plate of bone shoulder blade, pelvis, skull or something. There is no curing to suggest a limb bone or anything like that. I will try to get some photos posted by tomorrow. I am not saying I will have detailed up close photos but just some basics at least. RobertSoutheast, MO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 ...would someone be able to tell what the bone came from even if there are no identifible shapes?... If there is nothing at all distinctive about them, that might be a tall order. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raistlin Posted November 21, 2012 Author Share Posted November 21, 2012 I guess I should have worded that better. I guess I meant would someone at say a museum be able to view it and tell by bone structure? I found more bits that fit together I will be loading photos up shortly. RobertSoutheast, MO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raistlin Posted November 21, 2012 Author Share Posted November 21, 2012 (edited) Okay here are some photos, sorry they are not the best. I have two collective parts, one with two bits together and one with 8 bits together. I have also noticed as these fossils are drying they are becoming more brittle. I found them (most of them) in damp sand. Some were on the surface. What is the best way to keep them together? Edited November 21, 2012 by Raistlin RobertSoutheast, MO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raistlin Posted November 21, 2012 Author Share Posted November 21, 2012 I forgot to add the size. The biggest piece (the 8 bits together) is 6 1/2 X 4 inches. RobertSoutheast, MO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Can't help you with an id, and don't think one is likely, but I can help with them falling apart. Some of the fossils we find here come out of gravels in a reservoir so they are usually buried in sand and wet as well. Your best bet is to just lay them out where they won't be disturbed and let them air dry (slowly) completely before handling. Once dry they should be fairly solid and probably won't need stabilization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raistlin Posted November 21, 2012 Author Share Posted November 21, 2012 Cool thanks. The dark outer side seems okay. It is the lighter colored inside that gets crumbly. This is the side that is most porous like the inside of a normal bone. RobertSoutheast, MO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sward Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 (edited) That's a nice set of bones, but I can't help with the ID either. Hopefully someone will be able to give you some indication. After reading your original post, I thought you were talking about some small fragments, 1-2", but you got some pretty big pieces there. Once they're dry, you should be able to glue them back together and dip them in a consolident, if needed. They look shallow enough that you should be able to pour a bit of consolident in a cake pan and place the bones in there to let them soak. Edited November 21, 2012 by sward SWardSoutheast Missouri (formerly Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX) USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raistlin Posted November 21, 2012 Author Share Posted November 21, 2012 That's a nice set of bones, but I can't help with the ID either. Hopefully someone will be able to give you some indication. After reading your original post, I thought you were talking about some small fragments, 1-2", but you got some pretty big pieces there. Once they're dry, you should be able to glue them back together and dip them in a consolident, if needed. They look shallow enough that you should be able to pour a bit of consolident in a cake pan and place the bones in there to let them soak. The small pieces were sort of small I think the biggest was about 3 inches. The big piece you see in the photo is 8 small pieces put into place. They were all seperated when I found them and only the lighter colored (inside I guess) is crumbling. I still deciding if I want to glue the parts together or leave them seperate. Is there a way that I could put them together but could reverse at some point later? Like would elmers glue be okay or is there something different? RobertSoutheast, MO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiphactinus Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 The small pieces were sort of small I think the biggest was about 3 inches. The big piece you see in the photo is 8 small pieces put into place. They were all seperated when I found them and only the lighter colored (inside I guess) is crumbling. I still deciding if I want to glue the parts together or leave them seperate. Is there a way that I could put them together but could reverse at some point later? Like would elmers glue be okay or is there something different? Robert - if you want them together, but loose, you could get a large block of open cell styrofoam from a craft store and either push the pieces in or carve out space for them (depending on level of fragility). The foam will hold it all in place with no adhesive. I'm doing this with a terribly fragmented sea turtle from Kansas that is in progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raistlin Posted November 21, 2012 Author Share Posted November 21, 2012 Robert - if you want them together, but loose, you could get a large block of open cell styrofoam from a craft store and either push the pieces in or carve out space for them (depending on level of fragility). The foam will hold it all in place with no adhesive. I'm doing this with a terribly fragmented sea turtle from Kansas that is in progress. Oh that is an excellent idea. thanks. RobertSoutheast, MO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowsharks Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I guess its bone, but when I first saw all the shards it reminded me of petrified wood fragments that I have found. That flat section has an interesting texture on the surface. Daryl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raistlin Posted November 22, 2012 Author Share Posted November 22, 2012 I guess its bone, but when I first saw all the shards it reminded me of petrified wood fragments that I have found. That flat section has an interesting texture on the surface. Daryl. I will throw some under the scope again. You might be right. RobertSoutheast, MO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raistlin Posted November 22, 2012 Author Share Posted November 22, 2012 Looking at it again I guess it could be wood. It seems weird though if it is and is not like anything I have found before, maybe that has to do with age though. The cells look different and many of the cells are open at the ends. The cells are not like that of the wood I have in that the order (I guess that is the right word) seems odds and almost chaotic while still maintaining some order. One cell I seen was not shaped in a circular but sort of a blob. Also all of the cells seem to have "growth" to them in that you can see that they were getting thicker, this might have been while what ever it was, was alive or it might be due to the mineralization. The only magnifying way I can take a photo right now starts to get pixlized at high ranges. I really need to find someone else to get a look at this stuff. It is certainly like nothing I have found before. RobertSoutheast, MO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raistlin Posted November 24, 2012 Author Share Posted November 24, 2012 (edited) When looking at it under a microscope it looks very much like these photos (which are not my own nor of any of these fossils). With the microscope I have this looks like what I see. I am almost certain it is mineralized bone. I just do not have a way to take a photo of something like that. I have a small handheld magnifier that takes photos but at this range it would pixilate. http://www.geo.ucalgary.ca/~macrae/t_origins/carbbones/dinobone.html Edited November 24, 2012 by Raistlin RobertSoutheast, MO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raistlin Posted November 25, 2012 Author Share Posted November 25, 2012 At this point this is the best I can do to show the cell structure. RobertSoutheast, MO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashcraft Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 It's bone. You won't find any petrified wood in the area where you found the specimens. If they are modern, they are cow or horse. However, the area where you found them is an ancient Mississippi river channel, which moved course some 20K years ago. The channel you are searching in was dug in around 1925 to drain the swamps of the area. I have found a clay deposit under the Peoria loess in that area that when split will reveal full leaves, upon standing they actually oxidize before your eyes and are gone. A very interesting area. hope to do some searching this coming summer if the water stays low. Brent Ashcraft ashcraft, brent allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raistlin Posted November 27, 2012 Author Share Posted November 27, 2012 It's bone. You won't find any petrified wood in the area where you found the specimens. If they are modern, they are cow or horse. However, the area where you found them is an ancient Mississippi river channel, which moved course some 20K years ago. The channel you are searching in was dug in around 1925 to drain the swamps of the area. I have found a clay deposit under the Peoria loess in that area that when split will reveal full leaves, upon standing they actually oxidize before your eyes and are gone. A very interesting area. hope to do some searching this coming summer if the water stays low. Brent Ashcraft I am hoping I can get an hour or two some time soon to check the sand bar a bit more. I did not have any tools that day it was just going to be a quick look lol. I want to take my small hand spade and the little rake I have, as well as my sifters. This is certainly not modern, at least I don't think it is. The weight seems a bit too much for each piece and I tested a very small piece with a lighter and it did not smell. Even after it has dried out completely it is still pretty heavy in terms of size. RobertSoutheast, MO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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