Shellseeker Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 On Saturday, I joined a trip sponsored by the Florida Paleontological Society to SMR Aggregates just outside of Sarasota. This is the Tamiami formation 2.5 to 4 mya and primarily seashells. The day 9am-1pm was hot and brutal, similar to searching in Death Valley, but the trip, lead by Roger Portell Director, Division of Invertebrate Paleontology from UF was fantastic . If you ever get the opportunity to visit SMR, grab it. Some photos of my finds. with a highlight on a shell that looks remarkably like today's Gaudy Nautica. It is very hard to believe that the operculum made the trip of 2+ mya. These finds once again confirms my Avatar as Shellseeker. ENJOY!!!! The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dozer operator Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Thanks for this post. And nice shell finds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PA Fossil Finder Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 That is awesome! You got the operculum and everything! Really looks like its from the moon snail family. Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Lovely Shells, especially that Operculum. Congratulations. Regards. Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted May 21, 2013 Author Share Posted May 21, 2013 That is awesome! You got the operculum and everything! Really looks like its from the moon snail family. I think that the Moon Snail and Gaudy Nautica may be related since they look so similar. However, I believe that operculums are very different -- Here is one for the Moon Snail, http://www.turtlejournal.com/?m=201004 I am very interested in an ID , but I am not sure whether it is either of modern similar looking seashells The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 I think that the Moon Snail and Gaudy Nautica may be related since they look so similar. However, I believe that operculums are very different -- Here is one for the Moon Snail, http://www.turtlejournal.com/?m=201004 I am very interested in an ID , but I am not sure whether it is either of modern similar looking seashells You can call this a "natica." Family NATICIDAE Natica plicatella Conrad The moon snail is Family NATICIDAE Polinices duplicatus (Say) That is the best I can offer. There may be more recent taxonomy, but you'll not go too far wrong with these names. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missourian Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Wow. Are you sure those weren't picked up at Sanibel? Context is critical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeR Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 I was there as well! I need to buy a FFM t-shirt so us members can ID each other. The latest name on the naticid would be Naticarius plicatella (Conrad, 1841). In the 25 years that I have collected from the Pinecrest, I have found only one plicatella with the original operculum--nice find. Mike "A problem solved is a problem caused"--Karl Pilkington "I was dead for millions of years before I was born and it never inconvenienced me a bit." -- Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted May 22, 2013 Author Share Posted May 22, 2013 I was there as well! I need to buy a FFM t-shirt so us members can ID each other. The latest name on the naticid would be Naticarius plicatella (Conrad, 1841). In the 25 years that I have collected from the Pinecrest, I have found only one plicatella with the original operculum--nice find. Mike As you likely can confirm, I was pouring sweat from under those helmets. This one caught my eye because of the bluish coloration. After getting home, I was cleaning out the mud/debris and half way into the shell, the operculum was packed tightly. Many shells have acid holes due to predation and I speculate that this mollusk was withdrawn deeply into the shell as it died and was covered in mud (which also packed in the operculum). I have never found one before. This trip is always a favorite. The shells are so plentiful with many rare types in fantastic condition. SS The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 "Acid holes" from predation? I thought those were borings made with the radula of a predatory gastropod. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 I agree... "acid Holes?" I was considering oging on this trip but got too busy around here. (I joined the FPS recently). Did anyone find any bones and/or teeth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masonboro37 Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Nice Murex...thanks for sharing your trip and finds. Process of identification "mistakes create wisdom". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted May 23, 2013 Author Share Posted May 23, 2013 "Acid holes" from predation? I thought those were borings made with the radula of a predatory gastropod. Harry, I initially heard this from a UF Graduate Asst's presentation . .... In the most antiseptic terms, death by radula goes as follows: Snails (and many other Mollusks) have a chitinous feeding structure called a radula, something like a tongue covered with very hard teeth that is adapted to their particular diet. Predatory snails use this as a drilling structure. They secrete an acid to soften the calcareous shell of bivalves, barnacles, and yes, their friends if need be, and scrape away softened shell with their radulas, until they have pierced the shell (see below). This has earned the snail depicted above the fitting common name of Oyster Drill. http://rahrahradula.blogspot.com/2011/08/death-by-radula-or-introduction-to.html The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted May 23, 2013 Author Share Posted May 23, 2013 Wow. Are you sure those weren't picked up at Sanibel? I am lucky enough to live on Sanibel which is 2 hours from Wauchula on the Peace RIver. As amazing as it seems, I have found many Moon Snails with Operculums, but not one Gaudy Natica. Also, the colors are all wrong for the fossil versus modern Gaudy Natica. Here are some photos: Modern Moon Snails do not have an Operculum that is similar to this one. The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted May 23, 2013 Author Share Posted May 23, 2013 I agree... "acid Holes?" I was considering oging on this trip but got too busy around here. (I joined the FPS recently). Did anyone find any bones and/or teeth? Sorry for the multiple posts, I am not experienced in adding all 3 quotes/responses in a single post. Two years ago, I went to SMR. I found a blueblade/brown root 1.5 inch Mako and others found MEGS! -- largest was 4 inches and yellow/green blade with tan root. There was a lot more but do not recall exactly. , On THIS trip, exactly 1 shark tooth -- A 1.75 Mako with a broken brown root (1/4 corner missing) but gorgeous blue, green wavy psychedelic blade. Lots of whale bone, verts, and at least 3 complete sperm whale like teeth -- The one I saw was 4-5 inches. Not a lot for 30 and 60 hunters, given that I brought home 200-300 seashells and 4 pieces of rose coral. SS The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Harry, I initially heard this from a UF Graduate Asst's presentation . http://rahrahradula.blogspot.com/2011/08/death-by-radula-or-introduction-to.html Thanks for the link; but, the coinage of "acid holes" is still not appropriate. Here's the test: If the predatory snail had no acid secretion, would it still be able to penetrate some shells with its radula? Probably, yes. If the predatory snail had no radula, would it still be able to penetrate some shells with its acid? Probably, no. They are "radula holes" by priority. If that sounds too picky, think of it this way: Any time you mention "acid holes" to a shell collector, you may not get the chance to offer an explanation before you are categorized as "untutored." People make those off-hand judgments - right or wrong - all the time. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeR Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 I agree... "acid Holes?" I was considering oging on this trip but got too busy around here. (I joined the FPS recently). Did anyone find any bones and/or teeth? Bones and teeth were rather rare on this trip. I myself found a nice cetacean rib and another too weathered to keep. The first time I went to SMR we collected one area of the phase 8 pit which nicely exposed Bed 11 where most of the vertebrates are found. This time we were in phase 10 pit and there appeared to be much more of Bed 10 than Bed 11. Roger Portell commented that this section appeared not to be as rich as phase 8 pit. The plan is to quarry the remaining area moving back towards the phase 8 pit and hopefully more verts will be found the closer to the older pit that operations get. "A problem solved is a problem caused"--Karl Pilkington "I was dead for millions of years before I was born and it never inconvenienced me a bit." -- Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Hi, Jack, on your 1st pic on #14, on left side it is a fossil and on the right side it is a recent Natica ? Coco ---------------------- OUTIL POUR MESURER VOS FOSSILES : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 1 (Poissons et sélaciens récents & fossiles) : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 2 (Animaux vivants - sans poissons ni sélaciens) : ici Mâchoires sélaciennes récentes : ici Hétérodontiques et sélaciens : ici Oeufs sélaciens récents : ici Otolithes de poissons récents ! ici Un Greg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted November 23, 2015 Author Share Posted November 23, 2015 Hi, Jack, on your 1st pic on #14, on left side it is a fossil and on the right side it is a recent Natica ? Coco Yes, on the left side of the photo is a fossil, which is most likely Family NATICIDAE Natica plicatella Conrad Here is a very interesting pdf that shows Florida fossil shells (including plicatella) under ultraviolet light giving details of patterns and colors. research.nhm.org/pdfs/33751/33751.pdf On the right side of the photo is a modern Polinices duplicatus, or Shark's Eye which I found on the beaches of Sanibel. It has another common name Moon Snail: The moon snail is Family NATICIDAE Polinices duplicatus (Say) The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Okay ! Jack, I think your link ins't complete... It doesn't work ! Coco ---------------------- OUTIL POUR MESURER VOS FOSSILES : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 1 (Poissons et sélaciens récents & fossiles) : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 2 (Animaux vivants - sans poissons ni sélaciens) : ici Mâchoires sélaciennes récentes : ici Hétérodontiques et sélaciens : ici Oeufs sélaciens récents : ici Otolithes de poissons récents ! ici Un Greg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Okay ! Jack, I think your link ins't complete... It doesn't work ! Coco I repaired it: LINK "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Oh thanks a lot Chas ! A french scientist, Jean-Michel Pacaud (National Museum Natural History, Paris) has written several publications about the residual colors of fossil shells after soaking in some concentrated bleach. Very interesting ! Coco ---------------------- OUTIL POUR MESURER VOS FOSSILES : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 1 (Poissons et sélaciens récents & fossiles) : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 2 (Animaux vivants - sans poissons ni sélaciens) : ici Mâchoires sélaciennes récentes : ici Hétérodontiques et sélaciens : ici Oeufs sélaciens récents : ici Otolithes de poissons récents ! ici Un Greg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 Okay ! Jack, I think your link ins't complete... It doesn't work ! Coco Coco, I am not sure what is happening. I am able to doubleclick on the link or cut-paste into a browser and it works fine. If you search in a browser for "light show from beyond the grave" , you should find it. Jack The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Hi, Jack, I don't know, perhaps my I. E. But I recorded it after Auspex repaired your first link Coco ---------------------- OUTIL POUR MESURER VOS FOSSILES : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 1 (Poissons et sélaciens récents & fossiles) : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 2 (Animaux vivants - sans poissons ni sélaciens) : ici Mâchoires sélaciennes récentes : ici Hétérodontiques et sélaciens : ici Oeufs sélaciens récents : ici Otolithes de poissons récents ! ici Un Greg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeR Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Thanks for the link Jack. That paper was published in 1975 prior to the widespread advent of image editing software. The actual patterns would be the inverse of what is pictured. Recently Jonathan Hendricks from San Jose State University has been looking more in depth at extinct fossil cone shells with UV and software to determine what they would have looked like if we could travel back several million years. http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0120924 Mike "A problem solved is a problem caused"--Karl Pilkington "I was dead for millions of years before I was born and it never inconvenienced me a bit." -- Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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