Fluorescent Fossils In Se Mn

[Bev]

I just finished a post consolidating everything I have learned about fluorescence in fossils so far.

http://www.bluffcountryfossils.com/blog/fluorescent-fossils/

Yes, I have been experimenting again! This time with both longwave and shortwave ultraviolet light.

If you have any interest in this subject, I have lots of links in the article, review a teacher's kit I purchased, how to's on displays and photography, etc.

Here is a receptaculitid under longwave uv...

And under shortwave uv...

I'm not sure yet, but this also may be a way to hunt fossils at night. :-D

FYI The TFF Benefit Auction of fluorescent fossils ends tonight at midnight central standard time in the U.S.!

[Mediospirifer]

Bev:

Cool stuff! I have a similar SW kit to the one you describe in your article. The obvious differences are that mine doesn't have the LW setting or the CD. I also invested in a larger (more expensive!) SW light that shines brighter.

I've found that more than half (maybe closer to 70-80%) of the limestone fossils in my collection are fluorescent to some degree. I have an oreodont jaw with teeth that is amazing under shortwave--the matrix glows a pale orange, the bone and exposed dentin show green, and the tooth enamel glows bright yellow! Unfortunately, my camera isn't working, and I don't have any good photos to share.

I collect fluorescent minerals as well as fossils (and a variety of other rock types!), and I think my favorite mineral in that category has to be calcite. That's the mineral that makes the limestone fossils fluorescent, and it shows such a range of colors...

I'll check out your photographing fluorescence links, and one of these days when I have a functional camera again, I'll post some pictures.

Thanks for sharing!

[Bev]

WOW! I can't wait to see your pictures!

I've been checking mine under shortwave and not getting hardly anything! Your jaw sounds like it is to die for!!!

PLEASE share where you got your shortwave setup, assuming electric? I am setting up a UV aquarium for my fluorescent fossils and would like to add shortwave.

And hey, any tips you have on collecting fluorescent minerals I would LOVE!

Bev

[Mediospirifer]

I bought my shortwave setup (rechargeable battery unit) from a mineral show presenter who goes under the name of UV Bob. He had a limited number of LW units that he was re-configuring to SW, and he was happy to sell us one. He could probably sell one to you, but be warned: good shortwave units are NOT cheap!! One person I met last spring told me that the shortwave flashlight he was looking at rocks with sold for more than $500! Mine wasn't that expensive (still 100+ $$), but it's an older and discontinued model that Bob bought a bunch of and is adapting one at a time.

You probably know this, but it bears repeating: Shortwave UV is potentially dangerous. Longwave is harmless, medium-wave is what gives people sunburn (and possibly eye damage from looking at the Sun), shortwave is more energetic than medium and therefore more damaging. Bob commented once that he made the mistake of doing a day's worth of shows in short sleeves, once. His left arm (the one closest to his large-scale shortwave display) was blistered at the end of the day. My light isn't nearly that powerful, but I still always wear safety glasses when using it, although my normal glasses will also shield well enough. I'm also wary of shining the light on highly reflective surfaces. I'm probably being overcautious, but I'd rather be certain!

A UV aquarium sounds cool, but I wouldn't combine fish with shortwave! I'm not sure how well shortwave penetrates water. Might be an interesting experiment.

One really striking mineral that I bought a couple of pieces of is septarian. The yellow bands are calcite, and are highly fluorescent under both LW and SW. (Did I mention that I really like calcite? )

The one place that I've done a field trip for fluorescent minerals is Franklin, NJ. The Sterling Hill Mining Museum is a great source for calcite and willemite, plus they bring in interesting minerals from elsewhere--the down side of that is that the minerals available for collecting aren't labeled! I'm still figuring out what I picked up last spring.

When I get a camera working again, I'll post more!

Edited October 14, 2013 by Mediospirifer

[Bev]

Thanks for all the info!

My "aquarium" is just the aquarium to shield the light and put the rocks in - no water. :-D

Bev

[Mediospirifer]

Bev:

Enjoy the aquarium!

One other bit of information that you may find interesting regarding fluorescence and fossils: I remember reading somewhere back in the late 80s-early 90s about limestone fossils frequently being fluorescent, and that preparators will often use a LW light to more easily see the difference between fossil and matrix. I didn't have a light at the time, but that was cool enough to stick in my memory, so that when I did get a UV light the first thing I did with it was look at all of my fossils!

[Bev]

Bev:

Enjoy the aquarium!

One other bit of information that you may find interesting regarding fluorescence and fossils: I remember reading somewhere back in the late 80s-early 90s about limestone fossils frequently being fluorescent, and that preparators will often use a LW light to more easily see the difference between fossil and matrix. I didn't have a light at the time, but that was cool enough to stick in my memory, so that when I did get a UV light the first thing I did with it was look at all of my fossils!

That's fascinating! I have found that very few of my fossils fluoresce though. But I do have two enrolled trilobites stuck in matrix that fluoresce and I could see a knowledgeable preparer using that to their advantage.

Thank you for that tidbit of knowledge!

Bev

[Bev]

Eric gave me tip on photographing UV just on the easy mode setting at a wider angle and editing from there. I think this is better than most I have photographed so far.

It is the dry aquarium I am setting up with fluorescent fossils and the bright yellow one is a mineral that fluoresces under longwave. I need to black the sides and create "stacks" to show them, but it is coming along.

Bev

[Mediospirifer]

Looks good so far!

We don't have a good setup for displaying our fluorescents yet; one of these days we'll get some shelves set up. We just need to rearrange the junk room first... In the meantime, they're wrapped up and stored in a set of file drawers!

How dark is the area where you do your photography? I noticed your linked article stressed that the room should be absolutely dark--that's a little difficult for me to manage, but I'm thinking of setting up a frame to put a blanket over, and setting the camera in timer mode (flash off, of course!) on a tripod. If I set that up in the darkest room I have, at night, I might be able to get full darkness!

First, I have to get my camera working again. It's doing very strange things with the photos.

[Bev]

Well, I have my fluorescent display in the bedroom which is fairly dark, but not totally. But if I understood what Eric said, he didn't seem to think that total darkness was the key as much as focussed light on the fluorescing objects being photographed.

[Mediospirifer]

So, I shouldn't need the blanket. That's good to know!

I'll have to experiment. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Bev]

So Mediospirifer and I have been exchanging fossils and talking via PM. She suggested that I post my aquarium UV longwave "display".

Please understand that this is a work in progress and that I haven't figured out how to really photograph under black light conditions, but here goes! :-D

I was given this aquarium including the light for FREE! I put out the word that I was looking for aquariums even if they don't hold water and now have SIX! I put an 18 inch fluorescent UV blacklight bulb from WalMart for <$6 into the hood. I had some black foam board and the backing from an old picture that was black laying around. I cut them to size and taped them onto the back and sides with electrical tape and black duct tape, again I had them on hand. WalMart also has flat black spray paint for <$1 a can, so I painted some little cardboard boxes and cigar boxes with flat black paint and used them as "steps" or whatever you call stuff that adds height to a display. So, I have less than $10 into this.

I know that the picture s----ks, but it is actually very cool! I have it in the bedroom as that is pretty dark. I use it as a night light!

Fluorescent fossils and minerals, dust free I might add, as a night light!

[Mediospirifer]

Looks good!

My only suggestion here would be to copy the specimen munbers onto some non-fluorescent paper for labeling, and place the labels under the rocks. White paper and fabric frequently has fluorescent material added to make it look a little brighter in natural light, according to UV Bob. This would be why white socks look like they're glowing if you're ever in a blacklit room... You might get better exposure time (and therefore a brighter image) without the white glare.

By the way, I think the term for the "steps" would be "risers". I could be wrong!

Enjoy!

[Coco]

Hi,

I use it as a night light!

Pay attention with the black light, it is very dangerous for eyes ! You should never look at the neon, just look at the mineral reactions.

If you want to continue to use this lamp at lighting at night, it is necessary to hide the neon so that you can't see it ! Otherwise you will hurt your eyes in an irreversible way !

Coco

[Mediospirifer]

Pay attention with the black light, it is very dangerous for eyes ! You should never look at the neon, just look at the mineral reactions.

If you want to continue to use this lamp at lighting at night, it is necessary to hide the neon so that you can't see it ! Otherwise you will hurt your eyes in an irreversible way !

It's always a good idea to be careful, but longwave UV (the standard blacklight) isn't really that dangerous.

UV light is divided into three wavelengths. Sunlight contains both longwave and mediumwave but not shortwave--our atmosphere filters that out, fortunately! Mediumwave is the frequency that produces sunburn and potential blindness with prolonged exposure. Longwave is fairly harmless, although I would certainly advise against looking at the bare bulb (or tube) for an extended time. Shortwave is the most dangerous, and should indeed never be looked at without UV-protective safety glasses. As I wrote above, I know someone who got a blistering sunburn on one arm from his shortwave light the one time he did a day's presentations in short sleeves. He now always wears long sleeves, and SPF 50 sunblock on all of his exposed skin when he's using the lights! Interestingly, glass is frequently good protection even if it hasn't been specifically designed for the purpose.

Bev, I would recommend adjusting the light in the tank so that it's not directly visible from your usual seat (or bed), just on general principles. I wouldn't worry about casual exposure.

Out of curiosity, have you tried shining your shortwave light through the glass to see if it penetrates? Try leaning a piece of calcite against the inside of the glass and shine the light from the outside to see if it reacts. Just be careful of reflections! If the rock doesn't glow, then you'll know that the glass is reasonably protective, although I'd test it again if you ever do get a brighter shortwave light.

Have a good one!

[Coco]

I have an UV neon since + of 20 years at my home, and we always told me to be very careful and to look only at minerals. But I am not a specialist, I prefer to be too careful that not enough

Coco

[Jersey]

Bev - interesting post. Are any of your specimens phosphorescent? That's where the specimen continues to glow even after the UV light is no longer shining on it (see, for example, http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~hamblen/uvminerals/phos.htm ) . I've never seen a phosphorescent fossil and that would be really interesting. Probably the most likely such specimen would be one composed of calcite since calcite often fluoresces and sometimes phosphoresces.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Jersey

[Bev]

Pretty photo!

I have not found any of mine, so far, to be phosphorescent as in glow after the light is turned off.

However, I was reading a thread with the guy has teeth that continue to glow after the light is turned off - pretty cool!

Creto just sent me 3 sharks teeth and a piece of petrified wood that glow a brilliant orange under longwave UV - blacklight.

My first orange! I'm soooo thrilled! Thank you Thank you Thank you Creto!

And sharks teeth yet! Ohhhhh, someday I want to find a sharks tooth! But not gonna be around here...

[Bev]

"Out of curiosity, have you tried shining your shortwave light through the glass to see if it penetrates? Try leaning a piece of calcite against the inside of the glass and shine the light from the outside to see if it reacts. Just be careful of reflections! If the rock doesn't glow, then you'll know that the glass is reasonably protective, although I'd test it again if you ever do get a brighter shortwave light."

No reaction on three different pieces, but boy, I need to clean the glass! :-D

Great test, thank you!

I haven't gotten around to all of the labels yet, but I think I would like them exposed as that is cool too! LOL I'm like a kid in a toy store right now. A totally new experience for me!

You would have to lay on the floor to see the blacklight, so no problem there.

And I'm actually a bit intimidated by the short wave, and it's really pricey anyways...

[Mediospirifer]

Bev, there's nothing at all wrong with being intimidated by shortwave! I'm also intimidated by mine, with the result that I'm very, very careful with it! I don't take it out of its box unless everyone in the room is wearing glasses, for instance, and if I'm setting it down temporarily I put it with the light side right up against an opaque surface where it won't get moved by accident. Plus, I avoid pointing it at my face or a highly reflective surface!

The test I suggested was something UV Bob showed me when we were talking about safety glasses. He told me that most ordinary glasses were reasonably protective, and demonstrated with my glasses, his shortwave light, and a piece of calcite. I found that very good to know! I've also tested a Riker mount window: no fluorescence! The Rikers do pass longwave, though.

Coco, it's always good to be cautious! I've been told the same thing, and it's only recently that I learned that there are different wavelengths of UV at all, let alone the differences. I still wouldn't stare at a longwave tube, but having the light visible in my peripheral vision isn't something I worry about, although if I were working on a project using it (like fossil prep) for an extended period of time I probably would grab the safety glasses, just to be on the safe side.

Jersey, I think the teeth in the oreodont specimen I described above are phosphorescent, but I'll have to get my light out and double check. I'm always glad to have an excuse to play with the lights! If they are phosphorescent, I doubt I'll be able to capture an image. The phenomenon does not last long!

[Mediospirifer]

I took another look at my oreodont under longwave last night, and the teeth are phosphorescent. The glow faded in about 3-5 seconds for the UV exposure times I used, 10 seconds or so.

I've noticed with my light that it doesn't turn completely off immediately when I flip the switch. To test for phosphorescence, I held the specimen in my hand under the light with my eyes closed, then moved the specimen away from the light and opened my eyes immediately after turning the light off. This allowed me to have better low-light-adapted vision when I wanted it, and avoided confusion with the faint light from the lamp.

Good question!