Rockaholic Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 One thing I've learned this summer searching for Carboniferous nodules is that good things can come in small packages.I must admit that in the few trips I've made to Mazonia-Braidwood Fish & Widlife Area in Illinois I ignored some of the smaller nodules that I came across,a mistake that I won't make in the future.I've taken advantage of the cold start to this year's Indiana winter and have set some buckets of nodules outside to freeze that had been soaking in water.I brought a bucket inside to thaw and found this nodule containing a seed had split.I believe the ID is correct,Trigonocarpus sp.,sclerotesta layer.This specimen was found in Indiana spoil piles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Wow! What a great fossil! Fantastic find, Rockaholic. Congratualtions. Regards, Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullsnake Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Nice one! Congratulations! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paleoflor Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Wow, what a real stunner! How did you arrive at Trigonocarpus sp.? Seeds are definitely not my strong point, but I thought Trigonocarpus sp. had only three distinct longitudinal ribs. Could your specimen be a Holcospermum sp. seed instead, as this genus, like you specimen, is marked by many (>6) ribs. 1 Searching for green in the dark grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockaholic Posted November 28, 2013 Author Share Posted November 28, 2013 Thanks for having a look.I guess there's more to be considered before a an ID can be made on this seed.I thought it was interesting that the ribs bifurcate on this seed also.I don't know if this has any significance.My ID was made with only a single reference,Jack Wittry's The Mazon Creek Fossil Flora. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 Woah thats too cool! Must go look for fossils..! "Faith is to believe what you do not see; the reward of this faith is to see what you believe" - Saint Augustine"Those who can not see past their own nose deserve our pity more than anything else." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluepickup Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 That's a very nice fossil. I love it when you get them with both the positive fossil and the negative impression. I hope you get many more from your buckets of nodules! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockaholic Posted December 1, 2013 Author Share Posted December 1, 2013 Thanks for all the comments.I've been trying to take photos of my favorite finds with each round of nodule splits.These split around the same time as the seed.I'm not 100% satisfied with the photo quality yet of these two photos and I haven't added a scale reference,but I thought I'd share these anyway.This is one of the better Alethopteris that I've found in a nodule and a pretty decent Annularia.I believe this is an Annularia versus an Asterophyllites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 One thing I've learned this summer searching for Carboniferous nodules is that good things can come in small packages.I must admit that in the few trips I've made to Mazonia-Braidwood Fish & Widlife Area in Illinois I ignored some of the smaller nodules that I came across,a mistake that I won't make in the future.I've taken advantage of the cold start to this year's Indiana winter and have set some buckets of nodules outside to freeze that had been soaking in water.I brought a bucket inside to thaw and found this nodule containing a seed had split.I believe the ID is correct,Trigonocarpus sp.,sclerotesta layer.This specimen was found in Indiana spoil piles. Wow, what a real stunner! How did you arrive at Trigonocarpus sp.? Seeds are definitely not my strong point, but I thought Trigonocarpus sp. had only three distinct longitudinal ribs. Could your specimen be a Holcospermum sp. seed instead, as this genus, like you specimen, is marked by many (>6) ribs. Hi Rockaholic, man that is a beauty! Congrats. Hi Tim, I see what you mean and thought similarly. I looked at Jack's reference also and apparently it could indeed be an internal layer of Trigonocarpus. Each layer apparently has different characteristics/species name. He mentions that there are only 43 different species in North America and the possibility that the species list is inflated! He goes on to say the nucleus of the seeds do actually show the "three part organization" from where the genus name comes from. Jack's Figures 5 and 6 on page 136 show very similar ribbing of one of the interior layers. That layer looks to be the 'sclerotesta' layer--a tough, thinner, fibrous and deeply grooved. I'm not a seed expert either but the ID seems to make sense based on the description and photos. Perhaps Jack or Rob will confirm. Very cool find! Regards, Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evannorton Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 Hi Rockaholic- That is an amazing seed. I've opened hunderds of flora nodules and only found one seed - and it is not nearly as lovely as that one....CONGRATS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilcrazy Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 (edited) I found this Trigonocarpus in the town of Braceville, IL at a housing development construction site. There was a big chunk of red sandstone and for the life of me I don't know why I wacked it with a hammer because I was nodule hunting. I'm sure glad I did. By some miracle the pod inside survived the blow. What I have now is a beautiful 3D seed pod from the Mazon area. I'm sure it could be thin sectioned to get detailed info about the spore pod structure, but I'm not about to do that. There is no clue in the picture for scale. The pod is 2.5 inches from tip to tip. Edited December 31, 2013 by fossilcrazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PA Fossil Finder Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 I found this Trigonocarpus in the town of Braceville, IL at a housing development construction site. There was a big chunk of red sandstone and for the life of me I don't know why I wacked it with a hammer because I was nodule hunting. I'm sure glad I did. By some miracle the pod inside survived the blow. What I have now is a beautiful 3D seed pod from the Mazon area. I'm sure it could be thin sectioned to get detailed info about the spore pod structure, but I'm not about to do that. IMG_0314.JPG There is no clue in the picture for scale. The pod is 2.5 inches from tip to tip. Wow! Nice seed! Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
middletown Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Rockaholic, Your name fits your findings so well. Pretty Fossils. I seems to be the product of a lot of patience and dedication from your part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlehead Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 The seed is a Trignocarpus tricuspidatum Newberry, 1873, which has the nucellus shell layer exposed. In most trignocarpids the shell of the nucellus (endotesta) is smooth and displays ribs with some amount of three fold symmetry. In T. tricuspidatum the endotesta displays an reticulated pattern, which is characteristic to the species. It should be noted, that in other species the ribs may be lacking or extent from the apex to the base. As long as internal structures are the same, the seeds of this type would still belong to the genus Trignocarpus as compression fossils or Pachytesta when premineralized. Attached is the original illustration from Newberry's description. Hope this helps, Jack 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lissa318 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Wow very nice!!!! Congrats! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockaholic Posted March 2, 2014 Author Share Posted March 2, 2014 The seed is a Trignocarpus tricuspidatum Newberry, 1873, which has the nucellus shell layer exposed. In most trignocarpids the shell of the nucellus (endotesta) is smooth and displays ribs with some amount of three fold symmetry. In T. tricuspidatum the endotesta displays an reticulated pattern, which is characteristic to the species. It should be noted, that in other species the ribs may be lacking or extent from the apex to the base. As long as internal structures are the same, the seeds of this type would still belong to the genus Trignocarpus as compression fossils or Pachytesta when premineralized. Attached is the original illustration from Newberry's description. Hope this helps, Jack Thanks for your post.It was very helpful and informative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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