Pool Man Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Hello all. I recently found my first Ecphora quadricostata. I now realize that I have seen a few fragment of them before, and this one isn't even whole,but still a first for me. My question is about its age. I know in Maryland this is a typical Miocene shell(State shell I think). But here in Florida, early Pliocene is what I've always called the bottom layer of the Calloosahatchee shell beds(where this shell was found) I have one shell book for reference, and the example it shows was collected locally in the Tamiami formation(underlies the Caloosahatchee)and is dated at Miocene to early Pliocene. Would ya'll call this a Miocene(Tamiami) or Pliocene (Caloosahatchee) shell?? Or am I being way to picky about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Hello all. I recently found my first Ecphora quadricostata. I now realize that I have seen a few fragment of them before, and this one isn't even whole,but still a first for me.My question is about its age. I know in Maryland this is a typical Miocene shell(State shell I think). But here in Florida, early Pliocene is what I've always called the bottom layer of the Calloosahatchee shell beds(where this shell was found) I have one shell book for reference, and the example it shows was collected in the Tamiami formation(underlies the Caloosahatchee)and is dated at Miocene to early Pliocene. Would ya'll call this a Miocene(Tamiami) or Pliocene (Caloosahatchee) shell?? Or am I being way to picky about it Brayfield's guide suggests that E. quadricostata is an index fossil for the Mio-Pliocene Tamiami Fm. 1 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 The Maryland Ecphora seems to have been reasigned to Ecphora gardnerae see Here The Pliocene species is found from Virginia to Florida. 1 KOF, Bill. Welcome to the forum, all new members www.ukfossils check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bmorefossil Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 yes it is the Maryland state fossil, but most of them are not complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Newman Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Florida has quite a rich fauna of Ecphora’s. E. floridana, Hawthorn E. hertweckorum, Hawthorn E. whiteoakensis, Hawthorn E. q . quadricostata, Caloosahatchee E. striatula, Buckuingham E. violetae, Buckingham E. b. bradleyae, Buckingham E. b. hertwecki, Buckingham E. mansfieldi, Buckingham Your shell is quite eroded but appears to be E. violetae, rather than E. q . quadricostata. However, if you are confident the specimen came from the Caloosahatchee then this s unlikely. Nevertheless a good find. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Hi Chris, What about Ecphora gardnerae gardnerae? Apparantly E. quadricostata is a seperate sp. See Here Extract- Paleontologists have shown that there were differences between the Ecphora quadricostata from the upper part of the St. Marys Formation (Miocene age) of Maryland and the Ecphora quadricostata from the lower Pliocene strata of tidewater Virginia. Since the species designation E. quadricostata had first been assigned to the fossil from Virginia (thus giving its name priority), the scientific name of the Miocene gastropod from Maryland had to be changed. 1 KOF, Bill. Welcome to the forum, all new members www.ukfossils check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Newman Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Hi Bill, As far as I am aware none of the Ecphora gardnerae complex are found in Florida! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Yeah, sorry all. I misread the original post, I thought the specimen in question was found in Maryland. KOF, Bill. Welcome to the forum, all new members www.ukfossils check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pool Man Posted January 19, 2009 Author Share Posted January 19, 2009 Thanks for all the replys! Im doubting my ID as a quadricostata. I found an interesting book online called "the geology of the everglades and surounding area" and it shows a handfull of different ecphoras from around my area. Ecphora whiteoakensis is the one that looks closest to mine, but the formation names in that book are very complicated( so far). I'm thinking that what I've been calling lowest Chaloosahatchee might actually be the Cocoplumb member of the Bayshore formation??(need more research or a real geologist). Dan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Newman Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Thanks for all the replys! Im doubting my ID as a quadricostata. I found an interesting book online called "the geology of the everglages and surounding area" and it shows a handfull of different ecphoras from around my area. Ecphora whiteoakensis is the one that looks closest to mine, but the formation names in that book are very complicated( so far). I'm thinking that what I've been calling lowest Chaloosahatchee might actually be the Cocoplumb member of the Bayshore formation??(need more research or a real geologist).Dan Hi Dan. I had forgotten about Ecphora whiteoakensis. This species has been recorded from unit 11 of the APAC pit Sarasota. Sarasota County, which is a member of the Hawthorn Formation, late Tortonian, early Miocene. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleoRon Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Hi Dan.I had forgotten about Ecphora whiteoakensis. This species has been recorded from unit 11 of the APAC pit Sarasota. Sarasota County, which is a member of the Hawthorn Formation, late Tortonian, early Miocene. Ecphora whiteoakensis is found in the upper Miocene Eastover formation if Virginia, and possibly North Carolina. If I remember correctly it is found in the Claremont Manor member of that formation. In most of the literature I have read it is actually listed as Ecphora gardnerae whiteoakensis. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Newman Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Ecphora whiteoakensis is found in the upper Miocene Eastover formation if Virginia, and possibly North Carolina. If I remember correctly it is found in the Claremont Manor member of that formation. In most of the literature I have read it is actually listed as Ecphora gardnerae whiteoakensis. Ecphora gardnearae whitieoakensis was named by Ward & Gilinsky in 1988, but later raised to species status by Petuch. It is known from the Mattaponi River, King Willian County, Virginia and from Unit 11 of the APAC pit mine, Sarasota, Sarasota County Florida. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pool Man Posted January 19, 2009 Author Share Posted January 19, 2009 Thanks you everyone! I hunt less than 20 miles from the old apac pit, so I'm going to go with the whiteoakensis ID for now, I have other inverts that I think might support this(Barnacles,Oysters). I need to try to get better pics of them tonight Thanks again Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleoRon Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Ecphora gardnearae whitieoakensis was named by Ward & Gilinsky in 1988, but later raised to species status by Petuch. It is known from the Mattaponi River, King Willian County, Virginia and from Unit 11 of the APAC pit mine, Sarasota, Sarasota County Florida. Petuch named a lot of Ecphora species in Maryland and Virginia that were already named. My understanding is that most, if not all, of the "species" he named in this area have been negated. I won't mention the things that I heard from the paleontologists who actually work in the area where the fossils occur. Since the Eastover formation is upper Miocene and E. whiteoakensis doesn't appear in the older beds of the Eastover formation, it is highly unlikely that the Florida species is the same if it is from a lower Miocene bed. The only Ecphora that I am familiar with that is lower Miocene, and possibly upper Oligocene, is Ecphora tampaensis. This Ecphora was found in Florida, Ballast Point comes to mind, and it can also be found as far north as North Carolina. I found a very nice specimen of E. tampaensis in the Belgrade formation in N.C. which I donated to the collection that Lauck Ward was studying at the U.S.G.S. in Reston, Virginia. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pool Man Posted January 20, 2009 Author Share Posted January 20, 2009 Here are a few more inverts that I find at the bottom of the shell layer,with the ecphora. Underneath these shells is a thick blue green clay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Newman Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Petuch named a lot of Ecphora species in Maryland and Virginia that were already named. My understanding is that most, if not all, of the "species" he named in this area have been negated. I won't mention the things that I heard from the paleontologists who actually work in the area where the fossils occur. Since the Eastover formation is upper Miocene and E. whiteoakensis doesn't appear in the older beds of the Eastover formation, it is highly unlikely that the Florida species is the same if it is from a lower Miocene bed. The only Ecphora that I am familiar with that is lower Miocene, and possibly upper Oligocene, is Ecphora tampaensis. This Ecphora was found in Florida, Ballast Point comes to mind, and it can also be found as far north as North Carolina. I found a very nice specimen of E. tampaensis in the Belgrade formation in N.C. which I donated to the collection that Lauck Ward was studying at the U.S.G.S. in Reston, Virginia. This comes as know surprise, the reference material I was using was Petuch’s field guide to the Ecphoras, 1988. Personally I am a little circumspect about a lot of Petuche’s work. Ecphora are not really my field, they are ‘cute’ but I am more interested in the Strombus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank F Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Nice find. On Sunday I found a nice example of a Florida Ecphora as well. I have attached a photo of the shell in situ. I hope it shows up, as I am new to the site and don't quite have this photo thing figured out. Frank On Edit: I should mention that the shell is at least 95% complete. It's the best example of an Ecphora I've found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bmorefossil Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 welcome to the forum Frank nice Ecphora Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pool Man Posted January 27, 2009 Author Share Posted January 27, 2009 Hi,Welcome to the Forum! Nice shell there! The Matrix that the shell is in looks way different than here in North Port.What area of Florida are you in? Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommabetts Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Welcome to the forum and nice finds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Newman Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Nice looking specimen, have you extracted from the matrix yet? Would be very interested to see some more images!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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