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European Mammoth Or Elephant Species Id.


rylawz

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Here is a mystery molar from Europe. I have no info on it. first off I believe it is a landfind based on a few things, but that brings me no closer to identifying the species. As you can see in the second photo the inner enamel is still calcified which means it is probably geologically young.
I identify the tooth as an m2 lower. The tooth has 15 plates spread across 6 1/4 inches. The plate number points towards a woolly; the only thing keeping me from giving it the ID of woolly is the split in in the plates starting midway through the molar. I have seen that characteristic on a large southern mammoth molar of mine pictured last, but I can already rule out southern easily based on plate count and individual plate thickness, molar thickness ect.

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Edited by rylawz
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Harry Pristis

Rylawz posted:

As you can see in the second photo the inner enamel is still calcified which means it is probably geologically young.

I don't understand what you mean. I don't think there is anything "calcified' about the enamel of mammoth teeth. Tell us what you think you know about this.

Edited by Harry Pristis
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I don't understand what you mean. I don't think there is anything "calcified' about the enamel of mammoth teeth. Tell us what you think you know about this.

Sorry, I meant not completely fossilized. But that is really besides the point. I would appreciate any solid help in identifying the tooth to a specific species. Tell us what you think you know about this.

Edited by rylawz
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Mammoth fossils are very common here in Europe, it does look a lot like some of the Mammuthus Meridionalis molars that turn up in Eastern Europe but given the condition of the tooth (excellent!) and what you say about the enamel and the plate count I would lean towards Mammuthus Primigenius as there is evidence to suggest they still roamed Europe as 'recently' as 14,000 years ago. I've seen that split in the plates a fair few times on molars but like you say usually on Meridionalis. The condition alone tells me it's a land find. I'm just thinking out loud here as a Mammoth fan, no doubt someone here is better informed to help you further.

Its a very nice tooth regardless, you would pay good money for a tooth in that condition here in the UK.

BTW the Natural History museum in London currently has a Mammoth exhibition on, you need to be quick as it shuts in a few days but they have Lyuba the baby Mammoth found frozen in Siberia on display, its well worth the £10 entrance fee.

Edited by ukll
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Mammoth fossils are very common here in Europe, it does look a lot like some of the Mammuthus Meridionalis molars that turn up in Eastern Europe but given the condition of the tooth (excellent!) and what you say about the enamel and the plate count I would lean towards Mammuthus Primigenius as there is evidence to suggest they still roamed Europe as 'recently' as 14,000 years ago. I've seen that split in the plates a fair few times on molars but like you say usually on Meridionalis. The condition alone tells me it's a land find. I'm just thinking out loud here as a Mammoth fan, no doubt someone here is better informed to help you further.

Its a very nice tooth regardless, you would pay good money for a tooth in that condition here in the UK.

BTW the Natural History museum in London currently has a Mammoth exhibition on, you need to be quick as it shuts in a few days but they have Lyuba the baby Mammoth found frozen in Siberia on display, its well worth the £10 entrance fee.

Thanks for your input! It seems like an appropriate name, the mystery molar. I think it could possibly be a pathological woolly also. There is no other mammoth species that exhibits those size and numbered plates. But I'm sure it isn't a straight tusked elephant or any other elephant species. I've also noticed differences in the roots between the species of mammoths. Southern and steppe have curtain like roots while mammoths have distinct large unsymmetrically placed roots, and elephas has smaller pointy symmetrical roots. Since you obviously have some knowledge of Elephantidae molars, what do you think about this jaw from mid Pleistocene Hungarian gravel deposits. I think it is a straight tusked elephant based on the little "nipple" on the center of the middle enamel plates(best description I could think of haha). You can also see my careful prep work in and around the enamel plates in the before and after photo.

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Edited by rylawz
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That tooth does seem to have a lot of features that my Palaeoloxodon Antiquus molar has, again I'm no expert but the size and plate count looks about right plus it does display the trademark 'nipple' on the plates as you call it. My tooth was found in Oxfordshire, UK and also displays the 'nipple' on the plates but I suspect mine is from an old warrior as the plates show a lot of wear, it takes pride of place in my collection alongside my Stegodon molar that looks like a toast rack!

Your tooth is a real beauty, I've seen a few still attached to sections of jaw but never one still inbedded in half a jaw like that, if it is indeed Palaeoloxodon Antiquus then its pretty rare.

I really want a Mastodon molar but they almost never become available here in the UK.

Edited by ukll
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That tooth does seem to have a lot of features that my Palaeoloxodon Antiquus molar has, again I'm no expert but the size and plate count looks about right plus it does display the trademark 'nipple' on the plates as you call it. My tooth was found in Oxfordshire, UK and also displays the 'nipple' on the plates but I suspect mine is from an old warrior as the plates show a lot of wear, it takes pride of place in my collection alongside my Stegodon molar that looks like a toast rack!

Your tooth is a real beauty, I've seen a few still attached to sections of jaw but never one still inbedded in half a jaw like that, if it is indeed Palaeoloxodon Antiquus then its pretty rare.

I really want a Mastodon molar but they almost never become available here in the UK.

Post a pic of yours! Are you looking for specifically American mastodon or other species of mastodonts? I can get a hold of miocene mastodont molars like these 3 associated ones from Bosnia.

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