coprolite? and tooth

[PaleIO]

I am very new to the fossil collecting hobby so i really appreciate the input. the knowledge base here is impressive to say the least.... this was all found in close proximity. the area also has lots of tiny shell fossils. I am not sure about the coprolite I only picked it up because it had "the look" haha. it seams to have broken shell pieces in it also. The tooth appears to still have a bone type material attached and is very interesting to me. 

 

 

[GeschWhat]

First I'd like to welcome you to the forum!

 

I don't think these are coprolites. While a few seem to have the overall shape of fecal segments, they just seem too granular. I think they may be some sort of accretions. The disc-shaped one almost looks like it could be an encrusted vertebra. Where did you find these?

 

@Carl what do you think?

[ynot]

Where did You find these? The "coprolites" appear to be iron concretions.

Nice tooth.

 

Tony

[PaleIO]

Thank you for the warm welcome. They came from NE New Mexico. I was wondering about the grainy texture. the only other thing that made me think coprolite was how close they were together and I didn't see any other similar material in the area. another image attached.. Thanks!!

[GeschWhat]

1 hour ago, PaleIO said:

Thank you for the warm welcome. They came from NE New Mexico. I was wondering about the grainy texture. the only other thing that made me think coprolite was how close they were together and I didn't see any other similar material in the area. another image attached.. Thanks!!

Here is an accretion cluster from Venezuela that I was hoping was a pile of coprolite. However, under the microscope it turned out to be grainy. Looking at the small chipped edge, it is hard to see if the texture is consistent throughout. You could try cracking one open to see what the inside looks like. Do you happen to know what geologic formation they are from? 

 

[Jonelle]

nice tooth & coin  

 

[Carl]

13 hours ago, GeschWhat said:

First I'd like to welcome you to the forum!

 

I don't think these are coprolites. While a few seem to have the overall shape of fecal segments, they just seem too granular. I think they may be some sort of accretions. The disc-shaped one almost looks like it could be an encrusted vertebra. Where did you find these?

 

@Carl what do you think?

I agree, they lack most of the features I would want to see to make a confident coprolite ID.

[PaleIO]

On November 29, 2016 at 7:57 PM, GeschWhat said:

Here is an accretion cluster from Venezuela that I was hoping was a pile of coprolite. However, under the microscope it turned out to be grainy. Looking at the small chipped edge, it is hard to see if the texture is consistent throughout. You could try cracking one open to see what the inside looks like. Do you happen to know what geologic formation they are from? 

 

I cracked one open in the name of science! Haha. I do not know the geologic formation. It is in similar material as the cone-in-cone I posted first.

 

 

 

 

[GeschWhat]

Hmm...interesting. It reminds me of peat inside; but I've never seen fossilized peat. It doesn't look as granular as it did on the outside - more fibrous. Although, it is really hard to tell anything from photos. I wonder if it could be a pile of herbivore coprolite. That would be extremely rare, but very cool IF it is (and that is a BIG if). Herbivore poop rarely fossilizes. Perhaps those are seed hulls and not shells on the outside. Do you have access to a microscope? 

 

@Carlam I just being overly hopeful? Think horse droppings.

 

Edit: Added photo with arrows pointing to possible plant material.

[Carl]

On 11/29/2016 at 7:35 PM, GeschWhat said:

First I'd like to welcome you to the forum!

 

I don't think these are coprolites. While a few seem to have the overall shape of fecal segments, they just seem too granular. I think they may be some sort of accretions. The disc-shaped one almost looks like it could be an encrusted vertebra. Where did you find these?

 

@Carl what do you think?

I agree, they lack most of the features I would want to see to make a confident coprolite ID.

 

@GeschWhat I see where you are coming from. They certainly lack the features most would look for but that is, in part, because herbivore coprolites are so rare (or, we just don't yet have a handle on IDing them). I'm open to them being coprolites but someone sharper than I would have to take a close look.

[GeschWhat]

 

@PaleIO was kind enough to send me a couple samples to look at under the microscope. They are definitely not herbivore coprolites. In fact, they are not coprolites at all.  However, they do contain coprolites...one with a vertebra inclusion. They are very grainy and contain some shell bits, quite a few fish vertebrae, some bone, what looks to be a tooth (or perhaps part of a crustacean), and other things I haven't been able to identify. Based on what I could see, I'm thinking these are infilled burrows. Any thoughts?

[GeschWhat]

I tried to post additional photos, but for some reason it won't let me post more...weird. It let me post them to the edit, though!

[JohnJ]

Lori, if that happens, refresh the page, and it will clear you to add additional photos. 

[PaleIO]

Thank you for posting the photos GeschWhat...although I am disappointed they are not coprolite I am amazed with the diversity of parts you located in them. I hope others chime in on the subject. 

[ynot]

Could they be the debris that filled the bottom of a burrow of a predatory fish?

Tony

[GeschWhat]

4 hours ago, PaleIO said:

Thank you for posting the photos GeschWhat...although I am disappointed they are not coprolite I am amazed with the diversity of parts you located in them. I hope others chime in on the subject. 

No problem...good news is that they contain coprolites!

[GeschWhat]

4 hours ago, ynot said:

Could they be the debris that filled the bottom of a burrow of a predatory fish?

Tony

That's kind of what I was thinking, Tony. I may do a little "excavation" around the possible tooth, to see what it is.

[squali]

Could they be from a lag deposit that was eroded and tumbled?  The variety of fossils  fits with what I have found in marine laggerstaten, including plant material.  Try looking uphill or upstream from where you found them.

[tmaier]

"Could they be the debris that filled the bottom of a burrow of a predatory fish? "

I kept saltwater aquariums, and had some gobies and other fish and crustaceans that make burrows. All of them kept their burrows clean of feces and other debris. They seemed very fastidious about the cleanliness. This probably has hygiene/health reasons. The don't defecate where they live.

This thread has so many megabytes of photos, I can't download half of them and see what people are talking about, but the converstaion is interesting. =-)

[fifbrindacier]

I agree with @tmaier, the animals usually don't defecate in where they live, burrows or nests, because of the hygiene but also because the odor would tell predators or preys "Hello, i'm here, waiting for you".

Here are the possible scenarii :

- Some dig holes, defecate inside and refill it (like human beings when they have to).

- Some dig at the same place several times.

- Some live in colony and so they might have been several individuals that defecated in the same hole.

[squali]

I'm not seeing any indication of an animal burrow. 

[fifbrindacier]

On 10 décembre 2016 at 3:55 AM, GeschWhat said:

I tried to post additional photos, but for some reason it won't let me post more...weird. It let me post them to the edit, though!

I am not sure this one is a tooth, i see some kind of segmentation, so i think you might be right when you speak of crustacean.

 

[GeschWhat]

@fifbrindacier I goofed with the tooth label on that one. I did a little more "excavation" with my Xacto blade. Here is an updated image along with a couple of others. It is amazing how many vertebrae and coprolites are in these. The last photo is of a worn shell on the exterior of the "burrow."

[Carl]

Wow! Definitely cool, whatever they wind up being!

[fifbrindacier]

I think that those nodules are the product of the activity of a carnivore. You must feel you are in paradise @GeschWhat.