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Found this fish tail yesterday, and was wondering if there is enough here for an ID?

 

Thanks

fishtail.jpg

fishtail2.JPG

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Very cool find. Congratulations. FOTM, assuming you can ID it? What another fish?

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Fossildude19

Not sure, ... maybe Pachyrhizodus? :unsure: 

 

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6 hours ago, Fossildude19 said:

Not sure, ... maybe Pachyrhizodus? :unsure: 

 

Very well could be.

Right matrix, right area, right size......

Jess B.

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Ptychodus04

@StevenJDennis 

 

The vertebrae look more ichthyodectid to me. Could be a small Xiphactinus or a Sauradon.

 

What's the formation? I saw the Eagle Ford Group tag but do you know the formation also?

 

Very nice find!

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Killer find. Maybe Cimolichthyes. Here's one @Foshunter found. I would enter it in VFOTM.

med_gallery_3940_931_1111368.jpg

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Ptychodus04

It is my understanding that Ichthyodectid specimens missing a head can't be definitively identified to a genus due to the fact that all of them had the same body morphology and the differences are in the head. Am I mistaken?

 

One could make a speculative ID based on size but who is to know if you have an adult Gillicus/Sauradon or a juvenile Xiphactinus/Ichthyodectes?

 

Edit: I see the post about Cimolichthyes but IMHO the verts look more ichthyodectid from the pics. Hard to say until it's prepped though.

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cranial (Forey,2003)

Ok ,perhaps lacking in relevance for the problem at hand,but....

reec.jpg

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Ptychodus,I am looking at Patterson /Rosen now.

( long analysis of Ichthyodectid morphology and systematics,from a while back)

No direct indications that postcranial material might be totally uninformative,at least in Recent species

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Ptychodus04
55 minutes ago, doushantuo said:

Ptychodus,I am looking at Patterson /Rosen now.

( long analysis of Ichthyodectid morphology and systematics,from a while back)

No direct indications that postcranial material might be totally uninformative,at least in Recent species

 

Have you run into anything showing differences in postcranial morphology between the different genera? This would be very helpful in determining proper ID.

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Bear with me,i will post some stuff that could be useful.

I'm certainly no expert on the Mesozoic fish of the USA

Saurocephalus,Saurodon,Thrissops,Cladocyclus,Proportheus,Ennelichthys,Itaparica,Chirocentrites,Spathodactylys,Ichtyodectes,Xiphactinus,

Gillicus,Eubyodectes(Eubiodectes?not sure aboiut the spelling),Coyoo*,Prosaurodon,Vallecillichthys,Inamichthys and another one I'm trying to find out about are the Ichthyodectidae recognized

thus far

Stewart's 1999 piece on a saurodontid is heavily paywalled,so I know beforehand I don't have everything.

I'm looking at a cladogram with absolutely zilch apomorphies concerning caudal osteology.

*described from Australia in 1987

edit:

straight out of fruitbat's:

cavendercaudalichthyodectifOP650.pdf

Edit 2: the Patterson i was speedreading is also in Fruitbat's of course.

Most ,if not all,of the American Museum Bulletin/Novitates are Free access

 

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Saurodon(1-5),Saurocephalus6),from Loomis

loomibercofimages.jpg

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Ptychodus04

@doushantuo you're a good mine of information! You are never allowed to leave. :P

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