FF7_Yuffie Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 Sold as Coelophysis tooth, claw and vert set. From Bull Canyon. Seller has quite a few, so I just picked two at random. Is it coelo, or something else? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleoNoel Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 While it's the right age for Coelophysis, the no definitive remains have been found in the formation. Sellers tend to label the smaller dinosaur looking teeth as coelophysis as it's among the most recognizable names for any Triassic dinosaur. Some of the time the teeth aren't even from dinosaurs, but labeling them as such will lead them to sell better. I am only repeating what I have read and inferred from posts on here. I haven't bought any Bull Canyon fossils yet (although I probably will eventually as Triassic fossils are almost absent in my collection). I will defer to more knowledgeable members in this subject. @Troodon @Jaimin013 @Runner64 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runner64 Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 Here is a good starting point and will help with ID: Likewise, I know very little on Bull Canyon material except that it is very difficult to ID properly and archosaur fossils are commonly sold as dinosaurian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FF7_Yuffie Posted May 4, 2020 Author Share Posted May 4, 2020 20 minutes ago, Runner64 said: Here is a good starting point and will help with ID: Likewise, I know very little on Bull Canyon material except that it is very difficult to ID properly and archosaur fossils are commonly sold as dinosaurian. Thanks. Ill have a look after work. The seller has a fair few triassic bits. He has archosaur teeth which, to me, do look different to the possible coelophysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FF7_Yuffie Posted May 4, 2020 Author Share Posted May 4, 2020 So, looking at the Triassic ID link, I'm gonna go with them not being a coelophysis teeth. But, I am probably gonna buy it --- good price for a Triassic tooth, claw and vert. But, still curious if anyone has any suggestions what they might be. Is it possible it could be bird--protoavis? A shot in the dark, maybe. But they dont seem to match the archosaur teeth i see on google. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 None of items shown are coelophysis. Most are likely not dinosaurian other than the partial claw in the second photo but who knows. Again like I mention in my topic coelophysis has yet to be described from the Bull Canyon Fm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FF7_Yuffie Posted May 4, 2020 Author Share Posted May 4, 2020 25 minutes ago, Troodon said: None of items shown are coelophysis. Most are likely not dinosaurian other than the partial claw in the second photo but who knows. Again like I mention in my topic coelophysis has yet to be described from the Bull Canyon Fm. Cheers. I had my doubts after reading your link. Only thing is, looking around the web, I dont know what they could be or even vaguely dinosaur, archosaur etc. I want it cos of the excellent price, but having unidentified fossils on my display bugs me so much lol. Still, I cant fault the price even if misidentified Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 You are not going to get an ID on the teeth, might be dinosaurian or most likely some Archosauriform. Just not that much known. They are cool teeth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FF7_Yuffie Posted May 4, 2020 Author Share Posted May 4, 2020 5 hours ago, Troodon said: You ard not going to get an ID on the teeth, might be dinosaurian or most likely some Archosauriform. Just not that much known. Thanks for the help. Its much appreciated If I can trouble you for a quick peek at a pair of different teeth from same seller, one as unidentified theropod and the other as possible Herrerasaurid (which I think is actually an Archosaur) would that be ok? I dont wanna be a pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 7 minutes ago, FF7_Yuffie said: If I can trouble you for a quick peek at a pair of different teeth from same seller, one as unidentified theropod and the other as possible Herrerasaurid (which I think is actually an Archosaur) would that be ok? Of course, here to try to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FF7_Yuffie Posted May 4, 2020 Author Share Posted May 4, 2020 9 minutes ago, Troodon said: Of course, here to try to help. Thanks very much, I reallu appreciate it. This the herrerasaurid (Chindesaurus? Its mentioned as being from there) they are10mm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FF7_Yuffie Posted May 4, 2020 Author Share Posted May 4, 2020 These are the three theropod teeth. 3mm long. My unexpert view says middle one definitely not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 Th 7 minutes ago, FF7_Yuffie said: Thanks very much, I reallu appreciate it. This the herrerasaurid (Chindesaurus? Its mentioned as being from there) they are10mm There are partial teeth and we have no information published on Chindesaurus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FF7_Yuffie Posted May 4, 2020 Author Share Posted May 4, 2020 7 minutes ago, Troodon said: Th There are partial teeth and we have no information published on Chindesaurus So these, you dont think are dinosaur at all? Cool, I will probably leave these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FF7_Yuffie Posted May 4, 2020 Author Share Posted May 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, Troodon said: They could be but so little is published on teeth cannot positively say but good candidates. If you get them I would send photos to Ken Carpenter for his opinion. Nice, they are quite cheap, so I will get them bought. Shows how mych I know haha. I had middle one as not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 All are candidates but the top and bottom one are not very recurved. I think the middle one is the best candidate. Do get them and send photos to Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FF7_Yuffie Posted May 4, 2020 Author Share Posted May 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, Troodon said: All are candidates but the top and bottom one are not very recurved. I think the middle one is the best candidate. Do get them and send photos to Ken Thanks very much, I'll get them bought and get in touch with Ken Carpenter about them. I appreciate the suggestion Any of the three labelled Hererasaurus possible? Or are those not worth? Thankd again, I appreciate your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 Hard enough to ID complete teeth. Not worth it since they are partial teeth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FF7_Yuffie Posted May 4, 2020 Author Share Posted May 4, 2020 27 minutes ago, Troodon said: Hard enough to ID complete teeth. Not worth it since they are partial teeth. Thanks very much for your help. I need to brush up more on my ID skills I think. So, just to check, a legit Triassic era theropod tooth will be much more recurved than other teeth (archosaur, amphibian etc) for sale? A straighter tooth is one to avoid. Thanks again. You've been a big help. Once I have the ordered teeth and have heard back from Ken, I'll be sure to let you know his thoughts if you're interested? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 Well recurved teeth are more typical of theropod but you have lots of positional variations so lots of unknowns. The species Tawa hallae may be an exception but not a lot to clmpare against. Hey anything you find out from Ken or others please pass on they are the experts not us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FF7_Yuffie Posted May 6, 2020 Author Share Posted May 6, 2020 I heard back from Ken Carpenter about the teeth. Two likely Coelophysis, one he is uncertain. "Tooth 1 @ 3 are probably Coelophysis. Tooth 2 MAY be Coelophysis, but the serrations on the back edge look proportionally larger and seem to angle a little towards the tip. Also it APPEARS that there are no serrations along the front edge. So this tooth is less certain. Download this article: Buckley, L.G. and Currie, P.J., 2014. ANALYSIS OF INTRASPECIFIC AND ONTOGENETIC VARIATION IN THE DENTITION OF COELOPHYSIS BAURI (LATE TRIASSIC), AND IMPLICATIONS FOR THE SYSTEMATICS OF ISOLATED THEROPOD TEETH: Bulletin 63 (Vol. 63). New Mexico Museum of Natural History and Science. https://econtent.unm.edu/digital/collection/bulletins/id/3739/rec/5" I emailed them in the same order as I posted them on here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 3 hours ago, FF7_Yuffie said: I heard back from Ken Carpenter about the teeth. Two likely Coelophysis, one he is uncertain. "Tooth 1 @ 3 are probably Coelophysis. Tooth 2 MAY be Coelophysis, but the serrations on the back edge look proportionally larger and seem to angle a little towards the tip. Also it APPEARS that there are no serrations along the front edge. So this tooth is less certain. Download this article: Buckley, L.G. and Currie, P.J., 2014. ANALYSIS OF INTRASPECIFIC AND ONTOGENETIC VARIATION IN THE DENTITION OF COELOPHYSIS BAURI (LATE TRIASSIC), AND IMPLICATIONS FOR THE SYSTEMATICS OF ISOLATED THEROPOD TEETH: Bulletin 63 (Vol. 63). New Mexico Museum of Natural History and Science. https://econtent.unm.edu/digital/collection/bulletins/id/3739/rec/5" I emailed them in the same order as I posted them on here. Fantastic, thanks if you get them they should be labeled cf coelophysis since they are not described from the Bull Canyon Fm. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FF7_Yuffie Posted May 6, 2020 Author Share Posted May 6, 2020 1 hour ago, Troodon said: Fantastic, thanks if you get them they should be labeled cf coelophysis since they are not described from the Bull Canyon Fm. I have ordered them. Will do. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praefectus Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 Hi @Troodon. Does this mean that teeth with similar recurve and serrations can also be labeled as cf coelophysis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 35 minutes ago, Praefectus said: Hi @Troodon. Does this mean that teeth with similar recurve and serrations can also be labeled as cf coelophysis? This morphology is not described in the papers I've seen but Ken is more knowledgeable than all of us put together. I would do it with the First and Third tooth only. I think the middle one is theropod but not Coelophysis. I edited my Triassic tooth topic to include these two teeth as references 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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