Anyone Good with Fish braincases/Skull Material? (Some are very incomplete) ( Missouri )

[Samurai]

Location: Missouri

Formation: Muncie Creek Shale

Time Period: Pennsylvanian 

 

 

I have found many things in the phosphatic nodules from the Muncie Creek Shale formation ranging from scales, bones, coprolites and in some cases braincases or skull material

 

however I have found very little of braincases and I was curious if someone could identify what they either belong to or in case of specimen #1 if it is indeed a braincase 

 

I was also wondering if someone could possibly link me to some material relating to Pennsylvanian period braincases as It may help me to better identify such material 

 

Specimen #1 I posted this one to this site quite some time ago but never got a response to what it was but I am not 100% sure if its braincase or just some other bone material or even the aforementioned coprolite 

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately for these last 2 specimens they are incomplete due to my inexperience 2 years ago when I first cracked them open. I neglected to collect the rest of the pieces hence why I have hesitated to show them on this site for the shame of losing something potentially scientifically valuable, nevertheless I was wondering if they could be identified 

Specimen #2 This one is 100% a braincase but i do not know what it belongs too and wish for identification if possible from the fragment i have

 

 

Specimen #3

 

 

 

 

I only think the one above might be skull material is due to how it looks similar to my other more obvious skull/braincase that I own

 

here is a photo of the one I'm describing, which i did have all pieces for: 

 

 

 

[Fossildude19]

Well, not a lot of people on the Forum that I am aware of with experience with ID'ing fish brain cases.

You could try to e-mail Dr. John Maisey at the AMNH.  Maybe @Carl  can give him a heads up.

[connorp]

I would think #1 and #3 are more likely coprolites/regurgitations. I can't comment on #2, neat specimen though. Maybe @jdp will have some thoughts.

[jdp]

1 and 2 might be something. Hard to tell.

[Missourian]

The brain cases found in the Muncie Creek are called Lawrenciella. This article contains a great amount of information:

 

https://synapseweb.clm.utexas.edu/sites/default/files/synapseweb/files/2008jvertpaleontolhamelpoplinthebraincaseanatoflawrenciella.pdf

[Carl]

On 11/12/2021 at 8:04 AM, Fossildude19 said:

Well, not a lot of people on the Forum that I am aware of with experience with ID'ing fish brain cases.

You could try to e-mail Dr. John Maisey at the AMNH.  Maybe @Carl  can give him a heads up.

Just forwarded this on. Stand by.

[Samurai]

1 minute ago, Carl said:

Just forwarded this on. Stand by.

Thank you, If he is interested please let me know and I'll email him

[Carl]

From Dr. Maisey:

 

The fossils look like bits of paleoniscoid braincase. Spongy bone and splintered bits and pieces. Hard to identify. Lawrenciella is one of the forms but there are others (many are undescribed).