Snake head? Or rock? Or what?

[Mastterr.p]

Found it in a rock bed while pulling weeds today and have no skill of ID’ing this, it would be epic if y’all would help me out to figure out what it is, 

[FranzBernhard]

Welcome to TFF from Austria!

 

Usually, when "snake head" appears in a question, its just a suggestively shaped rock. And "snake head" appears often in a question!

 

This specimen, besides not being a snake head, is not just a rock. It is a puzzling specimen, I have a few faint ideas what it could be, but there are many knowledgeable members from your general area out there to give you an educated opinion.

 

Meanwhile, would you like to tell us in which county it was found? And with "rock bed", you mean it was found in some gravel / landscaping material from a quarry?

Franz Bernhard

[JohnJ]

Try taking photos of it on a solid surface.  It looks like a few shell fossils in cross-section.

[jpc]

And closer up pix with only your fingernails rather than the whole hand

[Mastterr.p]

It’s some medium sized river rock that was in a rock bed at a daycare I was cleaning the weeds up at, and I will get post some more 

[Mastterr.p]

[Mastterr.p]

And it’s from Iowa in America 

[Mastterr.p]

[digit]

As mentioned, snake heads don't fossilize (like this) so it is certainly not that but it does appear to be biological and not geological. Iowa might indicate much older rocks in the Devonian or Silurian (I'd have to look at some geologic maps of the state to be more certain as to the age). The two possibilities that struck me from its overall shape would be some part of an echinoderm (but @JohnJ would likely have recognized it if it were such) or the other thing would seem to be some sort of brachiopod (possibly in cross-section). Wondering if @Tidgy's Dad or @Kane might have something to say about this oddity.

 

I do love a mystery--always the chance for something new to be learned.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[Al Dente]

34 minutes ago, digit said:

or the other thing would seem to be some sort of brachiopod (possibly in cross-section).

It looks like a brachiopod to me. The brachidium is exposed.

[Mastterr.p]

Hmm.. all interesting, thank you guys I’ve been looking the brachiopod definitely is plausible, but it looks like it has a whole face and back of head, either way it fascinates me, thank y’all again 

[digit]

A few years back they found the oldest (yet) known snake fossil which pushed back the origin of snakes to the Middle Jurassic-Lower Cretaceous age:

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms6996

 

Much of Iowa is significantly older than this with just the NW corner of the state having Cretaceous age rocks. I have no idea where in Iowa you found this fossil but I'm guessing you could likely determine the age of the rocks by looking at this map:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Iowa#/media/File:Iowabedrock.jpg

The rest of the state has rocks that are significantly older than the Cretaceous and represent a time when brachiopods were incredibly plentiful and common in the fossil record.

 

9 hours ago, Mastterr.p said:

the brachiopod definitely is plausible, but it looks like it has a whole face and back of head

Sounds like you are not quite convinced as your initial hope that this is a fossilized snake head has not yet been ruled out in your opinion. Any thoughts that your fossil represents the fossilized head of a snake are the result of pareidolia which is a phenomenon which allows us to map random stimuli into shapes that are familiar to us. It is what allows us to see 'bunny rabbits' or 'dragons' in cloud formations. Our advanced pattern matching software in our brains allows us to recognize objects from partial visual information but it can go astray and allow us to envision things that are not actually there. The bones in a snake's head are quite delicate and snake vertebrae (and sometimes ribs) are more commonly preserved than the skull and jaws of snakes. In the rare examples of these being preserved they are simply the delicate bones and are not preserved in 3D with any indications of the original flesh and scales which absolutely do not preserve (outside of limited examples when caught in amber).

 

The fact that you can "see" a face and back of the head are illusions caused by the interesting phenomenon of pareidolia and nothing more. A well preserved brachiopod with the bradium preserved is a really nice fossil find. Enjoy this nice fossil for what it is but please don't be under any misunderstanding that this might possibly be a 'snake head'. We see a 'snake head' fossil here on the forum about every month or so and they all turn out to be something else (most of the times just suggestively shaped rocks). Your item is a nice brachiopod showing internal structure and I hope you are happy with that assessment.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[Mastterr.p]

2 hours ago, digit said:

A few years back they found the oldest (yet) known snake fossil which pushed back the origin of snakes to the Middle Jurassic-Lower Cretaceous age:

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms6996

 

Much of Iowa is significantly older than this with just the NW corner of the state having Cretaceous age rocks. I have no idea where in Iowa you found this fossil but I'm guessing you could likely determine the age of the rocks by looking at this map:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Iowa#/media/File:Iowabedrock.jpg

The rest of the state has rocks that are significantly older than the Cretaceous and represent a time when brachiopods were incredibly plentiful and common in the fossil record.

 

Sounds like you are not quite convinced as your initial hope that this is a fossilized snake head has not yet been ruled out in your opinion. Any thoughts that your fossil represents the fossilized head of a snake are the result of pareidolia which is a phenomenon which allows us to map random stimuli into shapes that are familiar to us. It is what allows us to see 'bunny rabbits' or 'dragons' in cloud formations. Our advanced pattern matching software in our brains allows us to recognize objects from partial visual information but it can go astray and allow us to envision things that are not actually there. The bones in a snake's head are quite delicate and snake vertebrae (and sometimes ribs) are more commonly preserved than the skull and jaws of snakes. In the rare examples of these being preserved they are simply the delicate bones and are not preserved in 3D with any indications of the original flesh and scales which absolutely do not preserve (outside of limited examples when caught in amber).

 

The fact that you can "see" a face and back of the head are illusions caused by the interesting phenomenon of pareidolia and nothing more. A well preserved brachiopod with the bradium preserved is a really nice fossil find. Enjoy this nice fossil for what it is but please don't be under any misunderstanding that this might possibly be a 'snake head'. We see a 'snake head' fossil here on the forum about every month or so and they all turn out to be something else (most of the times just suggestively shaped rocks). Your item is a nice brachiopod showing internal structure and I hope you are happy with that assessment.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

Thank you sir, you have changed my mind, I am in the linn/ Johnson county area I believe right above the Mississippian area, you guys are definitely more accredited than me that’s why I came here, I appreciate your guys help 

[minnbuckeye]

Johnson county is definitely Devonian and it was under an ocean at this time. So if you want to proceed on the snake philosophy, consider water snake!!! And no, there were no snakes in Johnson County then. Snakes actually evolved on land, not water!! And their appearance was during the Cretaceous Period, far from the Devonian!! Very interesting rock however. 

 

 Mike

 

PS

 Consider joining the local fossil club. For a few bucks, you will learn a lot and find wonderful fossils. I am a happy member.  

[digit]

1 hour ago, Mastterr.p said:

that’s why I came here, I appreciate your guys help 

We love to talk fossils and share/spread information. The great part of an open forum is that others can vicariously learn from this as well--both now and in the future while searching through the archives of this forum.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[Tidgy's Dad]

Yes, it's a section through a brachiopod pedicle area.