Shellseeker Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 It was really hot today, hunted in the rain, actually pretty nice. Kept the mosquitoes off of me.... Great opportunity to stand in water and looks for fossils....Lots of variation in the finds... I'll show_and_tell the more common finds and then ask for help on the last few... Turtle: Not many , but a few were pretty nice.. I have found lots of turtle . This one had odd fossilization.. A neural #2 .. @digit might confirm. A very nice Hemipristis, a Sawfish Vertebra and a rat jaw with canine.. A couple of bones. I think one is a radius. Any hints appreciated: These are sort of extra credit... 2nd bone, great shape ,, not a clue... In addition to the above , found a couple of hundred small colorful shark teeth... Now the ones to be identified wrong size for Horse, either Equus or Tridactyl. I have incisors for both and this just seems wrong.... I wondered about wild hogs or common pigs... so maybe this is a peccary incisors... I find little comfort in those guesses... and now this molar... Hard to get a good photo of it.... Chewing surface above... Enjoy.. All comments and suggestions appreciated. 1 6 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacha Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 Jack, the incisor looks Tapir. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automech Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 "found a couple of hundred small colorful shark teeth..." he says. Like it's a daily occurrence. Mr. Jack, I always enjoy your reports. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fin Lover Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 40 minutes ago, automech said: "found a couple of hundred small colorful shark teeth..." he says. Like it's a daily occurrence. I think that is a daily occurrence for those who know where and how to hunt the Peace. 1 1 2 Fin Lover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meganeura Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 59 minutes ago, Fin Lover said: I think that is a daily occurrence for those who know where and how to hunt the Peace. Not even where and how. You can go to any of the boat ramps and find a couple hundred in a few hours - and they get hunted like crazy every day. 1 1 Fossils? I dig it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted July 26, 2023 Author Share Posted July 26, 2023 1 hour ago, automech said: "found a couple of hundred small colorful shark teeth..." he says. Like it's a daily occurrence. Mr. Jack, I always enjoy your reports. 35 minutes ago, Fin Lover said: I think that is a daily occurrence for those who know where and how to hunt the Peace. Early 2011 in getting "acquainted" with the Peace River, my hunting companion was having a fantastic day on small teeth (approximately 25 in every sieve). He went home and counted them... 863!!!!.. Not every location continues to produce at that level more than 10 years later.. However, I know 3 or 4 locations where I could go tomorrow and average that number.. Finding that many teeth in a single sieve slows you down, so you might average only 6 sieves an hour times 5 hours of hunting = 750. It is "normal" to get 10 small shark teeth every sieve. Before you ask, I donate them... to my younger relatives. When I went to visited my daughter in Maryland in April, I took along 25 pounds of my best unbroken teeth.. she turns them into artwork.. I give talks at grammar schools on Florida fossils... I hand out bags of 50 small shark teeth.. The kids love me. I donate them for Fossil Clubs auctions.. or to Collages and Museums for their creation of teaching materials to grammar schools around the country. Finally, my hunting partner facilitates my access to private property locations within bone valley.. He gets all my broken teeth, and some whole teeth which he sells on the Internet for $5-10 a pound. 10 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Family Fun Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 Beautiful Hemi Jack, what size was it? also did my trip to Folly Brach, very disappointing. Walked the beach probably 8 hours over three days and found 8 teeth. One nice tiger, but that was it. Several years ago when I took my family there we found a hundred in a couple hours, things have changed. Rick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted July 26, 2023 Author Share Posted July 26, 2023 16 minutes ago, Family Fun said: Beautiful Hemi Jack, what size was it? also did my trip to Folly Brach, very disappointing. Walked the beach probably 8 hours over three days and found 8 teeth. One nice tiger, but that was it. Several years ago when I took my family there we found a hundred in a couple hours, things have changed. Rick Sometimes, a single great place gets depleted. But , if I give it time, hurricane and floods seem to redistribute an area's fossils. 35 mm on a slant is respectable for a Hemi.. Here is my largest... got me into that 2 inch club.. 3 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted July 26, 2023 Author Share Posted July 26, 2023 I took more photos of that molar... I am now thinking Dugong upper M2. Here is one from Nate: 2 1 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted July 27, 2023 Author Share Posted July 27, 2023 I keep working these bones, because I like to solve puzzles... I do not keep "every" bone I find, but this one has "character". !!! I am finding marine and not much else.... this bone is almost unworn, and from the pattern , it would seem to be a bone from a marine mammal... means 2-3 mya at a minimum. Some more photos ... the 2 ends It is "almost" complete and it is small, more likely Dolphin than whale... I think of Humerus in the flippers, but can not find a match.... So I keep on scanning images of dolphin bones on the internet, looking for anything similar.. While scanning Amazon river dolphins, I come across this.... I wonder ... we have river dolphin fossils in the Peace River... At least , it seems similar.... A possibility !!! I wonder what @Boesse (or any other of our dolphin experts) thinks about the similarity.. 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 @shellseeker Hey Jack, nice finds! I am curious about the turtle nuchal. Looks like it might be one of the Pseudemys... Do you have a ventral shot?--want to see the underlap...thanks Regards, Chris . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted July 27, 2023 Author Share Posted July 27, 2023 1 hour ago, Plantguy said: @shellseeker Hey Jack, nice finds! I am curious about the turtle nuchal. Looks like it might be one of the Pseudemys... Do you have a ventral shot?--want to see the underlap...thanks Regards, Chris . As requested, Let me know what you see.... and what it tells you... The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 It appears to be Pseudemys concinna. 4 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 On 7/25/2023 at 10:21 PM, Shellseeker said: A neural #2 .. @digit might confirm. 7 hours ago, Harry Pristis said: It appears to be Pseudemys concinna. Interesting. It didn't look like a Trachemys. Don't know that I've ever pulled any Pseudemys from the Peace before--very cool! Looks like this taxon reaches back into the Pleistocene. Cheers. -Ken 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 Jack, can we see the rodent jaw from a profile view? It seems pretty large and I'm wondering if it is Neofiber alleni. https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/florida-vertebrate-fossils/species/neofiber-alleni/ Cheers. -Ken 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted July 27, 2023 Author Share Posted July 27, 2023 1 hour ago, digit said: Jack, can we see the rodent jaw from a profile view? It seems pretty large and I'm wondering if it is Neofiber alleni. https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/florida-vertebrate-fossils/species/neofiber-alleni/ Cheers. -Ken Additional Photos The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meganeura Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 2 hours ago, digit said: Jack, can we see the rodent jaw from a profile view? It seems pretty large and I'm wondering if it is Neofiber alleni. https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/florida-vertebrate-fossils/species/neofiber-alleni/ Cheers. -Ken Do I need to take pics of my rodent jaws for ID now? Cause I’ve got a few that I’ve always wondered… Fossils? I dig it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 6 hours ago, Meganeura said: Do I need to take pics of my rodent jaws for ID now? Cause I’ve got a few that I’ve always wondered… I'm by no means an expert but I've found a few of these round-tail muskrats which I've donated to the FLMNH so I have a tiny bit of experience with them. 8 hours ago, Shellseeker said: Additional Photos That one is kinda beat-up but compare it to the one in the FLMNH link above or just online searches to see if you feel it is a match. Cheers. -Ken 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 On 7/26/2023 at 11:47 PM, Harry Pristis said: It appears to be Pseudemys concinna. Hey Harry/Jack, cool thread! I was trying to go thru the literature and find diagnostic descriptions of the differing Pseudemys we find around here as I have a number of them I'm trying to track down ID's for as well. There are even some other less rugose shell forms of other genera that caught my eye. I see some info in the distinctions between P.williamsi and P.caeleta in the length of the underlap. I also see images in the UFNatHistory db for both species but nothing on P. concinna unfortunately. UF...looks like they have a quite a few of the P.concinna nuchals but no actual images. I'll keep looking for measurement info and descriptions. I'm not doubting the ID I'm just trying to learn about the fossil turtles/tortoise in this fossil watershed and I have and this curiosity disease that causes me to go overboard most times...there are actually quite a few very neat types. Harry maybe you already know how to tell these guys apart. I wish we knew the exact age that would probably help alot but the Peace stuff is quite a jumble of ages most times. I did send a note to Jason with your pics Jack to see if he had a moment to help us. Maybe Ken has already gone down that path since he works with all those guys/gals up there. Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 I talked to Jason about Pseudemys yesterday morning. He said they are pretty common in the Florida fossil record but a lot of the time they come from places like the Peace with limited temporal constraint. The more scientifically interesting specimens come from in-situ deposits where they can get a better handle on the age. My fossil knowledge is usually limited to the types of fossils I've found personally or have been able to work with. Jason said that to do the abundance of Pseudemys in the recent fossil record that some of my turtle fragments from the Peace are likely from this genus. I too am curious as to the distinctions but too busy at the present with other tasks to make that deep dive down the rabbit hole of knowledge at the moment. I'll see if Jason knows of any relatively simple papers/references that might be useful to learning the distinctions. Cheers. -Ken 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 Uhhh . . . . . . . Have you looked at pp. 128 in Hulbert's book? 1 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 Sounds like I need to crack open that book again. Cheers. -Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted July 29, 2023 Author Share Posted July 29, 2023 14 hours ago, Plantguy said: did send a note to Jason with your pics Jack to see if he had a moment to help us. Maybe Ken has already gone down that path since he works with all those guys/gals up there. Thanks Chris.. I will be curious... So many things to learn, so little time to search... Life intrudes and then each day at the River eats a lot of time... I was out Tuesday and today... Whale and silicified seashells, Tridactyl tooth and a Hyplural mixed in with Pleistocene teeth and bones. Maybe I'll write it up tomorrow. The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 12 hours ago, Harry Pristis said: Uhhh . . . . . . . Have you looked at pp. 128 in Hulbert's book? Hey Harry. thanks. Yes, I like Figure 6.17 very much. I wish we had the ventral views as well. I wish there was a couple of figures that could show the shell variations within each species. Both pages 128/129 get into some of the location/species differences. Here's a not so great copy of that Figure for others from that page: From The fossil Vertebrates of Florida, Edited by Richard C Hulbert Jr, Univ Press of Florida. 2001 I just know with my level of expertise that without the confirmation of a specific site/age and coupled with the Pseudemys and Trachemys shell form variations and wear patterns that I've unfortunately been wrong many times more than Ive been correct in guessing to species level> Many times we come back to an ID to just the genus level. Jason has authored/coauthored a boatload of articles on our fossil turtles in Florida over the past 10-15 yrs and elsewhere so I'm hoping there are some splitting details or additional thoughts/info. Regards, Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boesse Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 The mystery marine mammal bone is the neural arch of an odontocete atlas vertebra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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