SE Texas - Colorful tooth from bison?

[johnnyvaldez7.jv]

I found this tooth yesterday on a river gravel bank.  I didn't see any coloring to it and almost threw it thinking modern cow. Glad I kept it because underneath the dirt and dust it has a nice color to it so it makes me think bison.

 

Can a cow tooth have coloring like this?

 

I'm just wondering under the best conditions, how long does it take for this to happen to a tooth?

 Sorry didn't get size but I will when I get home from work.

[grandpa]

That's a beautiful tooth!

 

But I'm a little confused???    While that tooth is lovely, when my teeth get that color my wife sends me to the dentist.  Has she no sense of beauty?? 

[johnnyvaldez7.jv]

@grandpa let me know when they get that color again I'll get my pliers ready to add to the collection! Ha! Thanks for checking the photos out.

[grandpa]

That would indeed be a fossil tooth!

[Carl]

I disagree that a tooth like this can be IDed as a fossil from photos alone. Color is a poor criterion on which to base a fossil ID, especially with a taxon that is still extant. That said, my gut feels strongly that it is a fossil based on what I see - but it's just a feeling, not proof.

[johnnyvaldez7.jv]

@Carl Thanks! That's why I was curious as to how long it would take for a tooth to take on this coloring. I know it's based on how it was preserved, tannins in water, iron content and a bunch of other factors. In a perfect condition, could it be hundreds of years to get this stain... less, more? I was just curious. I do get Equus and Bison teeth with this coloring but I agree they are extant. And you're right, coloring shouldn't be a factor in guessing if something is a fossil or not.

[Shellseeker]

I think that I have become pretty convinced from many threads and Harry's photos that THE differentiator for BOVID teeth is size.  What are the exact measurements?

[fossilus]

One thing to realize is that bison were common (historical records) in the Brazos and Colorado river basins up until around 200 years ago.

[johnnyvaldez7.jv]

@Shellseeker here are pictures with measurements.  

1 - 1/4 inches across

2 - 1/4 inches length

 

@fossilus that's interesting... I didn't know their presence was that recent. 

 

 

 

Edited September 1, 2023 by johnnyvaldez7.jv

[Shellseeker]

 

 

This tooth is on a for sale site.  The seller claims it is Bison tooth from Kansas. with measurements :*This stone weighs 70 grams and measures about 65mm by 32mm by 24mm."  Compared with your tooth it is slightly larger..

 

One thing to understand is the dental position of your tooth since different positions in the same animal have different sizes.  For example upper teeth are larger in the same animal than the lower teeth. 

So your initial question should be what is the dental position of my find.  It is either lower m1 or m2 OR upper M1 or M2. 

Here is one of the interesting threads that have discussed this topic previously:

 

In Florida, since Bison were not reintroduced until after the middle 1800s,  it is easier to make an identification just based on size.

[Carl]

6 hours ago, johnnyvaldez7.jv said:

@Carl Thanks! That's why I was curious as to how long it would take for a tooth to take on this coloring. I know it's based on how it was preserved, tannins in water, iron content and a bunch of other factors. In a perfect condition, could it be hundreds of years to get this stain... less, more? I was just curious. I do get Equus and Bison teeth with this coloring but I agree they are extant. And you're right, coloring shouldn't be a factor in guessing if something is a fossil or not.

Don't know of anyone actually figuring out how long this takes but I get the definite sense that in certain environments it can be surprisingly fast.

[Shellseeker]

2 hours ago, johnnyvaldez7.jv said:

@Shellseeker here are pictures with measurements.  

1 - 1/4 inches across

2 - 1/4 inches length

 

 

Here is another thread with individual Bison teeth measurements

 

[Shellseeker]

Took me a while to find some comparison teeth..  

Both Peace River finds... On the left a Bison Antiques maxilla,  and comparing my 2021 find to the M2 ( 34 mm) and M3 (33 mm).  I think my 35.1 mm tooth is an M2 both for size and match.

 

Here is another (I believe) M2 that I found back in 2015 in the Peace River. AS you can see, almost 38 mm APL.

 

As I search,  find teeth and Think about it,  your find and the one on the for sales site might be Bison upper M1s.. A decent hypothesis to test.

[johnnyvaldez7.jv]

@Shellseeker Thank you for all of the information you've attached. I read it all and I also believe it to be an m1/m2 or M1/M2. I usually work 6 days a week so I really need to study Texas mammal  history going back to the Pleistocene since that is what I usually find. Learning that the bison was as recent as 200 years ago in my area was new to me. But you and Harry have the best information and I, and most everyone on here I'm sure, appreciate the time you both take to educate us all on our finds. And I'll be sure to look carefully at those uppers. Thanks!

[Shellseeker]

9 minutes ago, johnnyvaldez7.jv said:

@Shellseeker Thank you for all of the information you've attached. I read it all and I also believe it to be an m1/m2 or M1/M2. I usually work 6 days a week so I really need to study Texas mammal  history going back to the Pleistocene since that is what I usually find. Learning that the bison was as recent as 200 years ago in my area was new to me. But you and Harry have the best information and I, and most everyone on here I'm sure, appreciate the time you both take to educate us all on our finds. And I'll be sure to look carefully at those uppers. Thanks!

Thanks,  You realize that I am following my curiosity as much as a good ID for your tooth.  I no longer work,  but I can not go hunting because this Hurricane put all my spots well under water.   SO,  I am working on Ancestry/Family Search, Cleaning up after Idalia,  and figuring out your tooth..  I am leaning toward a M1 Bison, either fossil or 200 years old.  In Florida , I see modern Bison frequently,, at the Feedlots on my way to the Peace River.