Archimedes Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 I have found these alot at certain localities and this one of the best specimen I have seen, it looks alot like Hederella chesterensis discribed by Bassler, but it look alot like worm tubes too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 I enlarged the photo so see details... Appears to me there are openings on some of the ends. I suggest feeding traces. Flash from the Past (Show Us Your Fossils)MAPS Fossil Show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archimedes Posted March 31, 2013 Author Share Posted March 31, 2013 He is an enlarged view Indy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 I'll go with worm tubes ... Also note the small Spirorbis sp. (center left) Flash from the Past (Show Us Your Fossils)MAPS Fossil Show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archimedes Posted March 31, 2013 Author Share Posted March 31, 2013 (edited) sounds good, I have never seen worm tubes that branch then branch again like this Yes I seen the little "Spirorbis" sp. but they have been remove from the genus by Taylor Thanks Indy Edited March 31, 2013 by Archimedes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 (edited) Instead of thinking "branching" ...visualize "feeding" or exploring. Edited April 1, 2013 by Indy Flash from the Past (Show Us Your Fossils)MAPS Fossil Show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 From the Treatise volume of Bryozoa: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 Well ... I'll tip my hat to Piranha ... Flash from the Past (Show Us Your Fossils)MAPS Fossil Show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 Well ... I'll tip my hat to Piranha ... ....and another tip of the hat to R.C. Moore et al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 I have R.C. Moore et al ... That will teach me not to shoot from the hip with IDs !! Flash from the Past (Show Us Your Fossils)MAPS Fossil Show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archimedes Posted April 1, 2013 Author Share Posted April 1, 2013 Although it is apparent it has been classified as a bryozoan, i have been looking at them with a microscope, the 9-10 specimens I collected last week in various weathered states, and i see nothing that would lead me to believe it to be a bryozoan. Indy pointed out the "Spirorbis" in the pic and the bryozoan (Hederella) have a very similar shell under the microscope so I have to lean towards Indy’s view of it being a worm tubes?? but i have never looked at worm tubes or bryozoans much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 (edited) Bryoazans are known to build some very interesting shapes.This subject brings to mind the Mississippian bryozoan EvactinoporaClick HereNote: All pictures are clickable to view magnified images Click on MorphologyThe individual bryozoan animals, the zooids, are found onthe faces of the rays or blades. Edited April 1, 2013 by Indy Flash from the Past (Show Us Your Fossils)MAPS Fossil Show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erose Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 Hederella is a well studied bryozoan. I have several species from the Devonian of New York State. There are many forms that bryozoa can take. This is definitely different than most but not uncommon in the right rocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 I think this is Hederella but Hederella is no longer considered a bryozoan. Here are a couple of links: http://users.physics.harvard.edu/~wilson/arsenic/conferences/2007_GSA/AM/P123339.htm and in the middle of this blog there is a discussion of them (a very interesting blog by the way) :http://woostergeologists.scotblogs.wooster.edu/2013/02/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 I think this is Hederella but Hederella is no longer considered a bryozoan. Here are a couple of links: http://users.physics.harvard.edu/~wilson/arsenic/conferences/2007_GSA/AM/P123339.htm and in the middle of this blog there is a discussion of them (a very interesting blog by the way) :http://woostergeologists.scotblogs.wooster.edu/2013/02/ Good detective work but Hederella is still being described as a bryozoan since they published the follow-up paper to the GSA abstract. The blog is compelling although this caveat leaves plenty of wiggle room by saying: "Their shell microstructure and budding patterns suggests instead that they may be related to the phoronids...". Here is a LINK to a 2011 GSA abstract that still has Hederella classified as cyclostomate bryozoan. There are also a handful of peer-reviewed papers between 2010-2013 that still regard Hederella as a bryozoan. Either a bunch of folks didn't get the memo or we need to see a more convincing argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Here's a link to Paul Taylor's publications : https://www.etis.ee/portaal/isikuCV.aspx?PersonVID=68146〈=en He studies and publishes on bryozoans and in his 2010 paper titled "Evolution and Biomineralization in 'Lophophorates'" he discusses the reasoning why Hederelloids probably aren't bryozoans. This publication is about a third down on his list of publications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Here's a link to Paul Taylor's publications : https://www.etis.ee/portaal/isikuCV.aspx?PersonVID=68146〈=en He studies and publishes on bryozoans and in his 2010 paper titled "Evolution and Biomineralization in 'Lophophorates'" he discusses the reasoning why Hederelloids probably aren't bryozoans. This publication is about a third down on his list of publications. Yes, I'm well aware that Paul Taylor is one of the top bryozoan specialists. The point I was making is no one else has followed with a peer-reviewed paper that corroborates Hederella is not a bryozoan. Further, the recent evidence cited is compromised because the surface patterns of hederelloids and phoronids compared are opposing surfaces (concave & convex). I'm fairly certain, like you, that he is probably correct but evidently that still requires additional proof. In the paper you cited Taylor et al. states: "A robust phylogeny is still pending for lophotrochozoan phyla, including lophophorates, but should eventually come from combined molecular and morphological data. Until lophotrochozoan phylogeny is better resolved, any conclusions regarding the evolution of biomineralization in lophophorates must be viewed as highly tentative. Not withstanding this strong caveat, we propose a model that maps the fossil history of lophophorates and inferred lophophorates onto a phylogenetic framework derived largely from molecular studies." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archimedes Posted April 3, 2013 Author Share Posted April 3, 2013 Thank You All, interesting discussion, we see the relationships of Hederella being questioned Thanks for the info, it is a great help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herb Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 I think it is a coral. "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"_ Carl Sagen No trees were killed in this posting......however, many innocent electrons were diverted from where they originally intended to go. " I think, therefore I collect fossils." _ Me "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."__S. Holmes "can't we all just get along?" Jack Nicholson from Mars Attacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now