cowsharks Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 In preparation of MD about to get hit with a major snow storm, I got out some of my Lee Creek reject material that I had washed and prepped a few months ago. I laid out a large sheet of white paper on my desk/table and started searching through it. Just a few minutes into sorting through it I came across a really interesting shark tooth, about 1.5cm long. At first glance I thought it was just another large Dusky, but this tooth has a very unique shape to it, curve to the crown, odd serrations that start out coarse and then end up very fine near the tip. I don't recall seeing a tooth quite like this before, and it doesn't appear to be pathological or deformed. I quickly scanned it and through together the images below. After doing a little research I have a couple ideas as to which shark it might have belonged to, but I'll hold off saying which one(s) to see if anyone else comes up with some suggested ID's. Daryl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixgill pete Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I may be wrong, but I am thinking a serrated Alopias grandis. If so, an extremely rare Lee Creek tooth. Bulldozers and dirt Bulldozers and dirt behind the trailer, my desert Them red clay piles are heaven on earth I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt Patterson Hood; Drive-By Truckers May 2016 May 2012 Aug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 Oct 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike and the Megs! Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Yea I agree with six gill . That's what I was thinking before I read his comment. Very nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Daryl It looks from the pictures like the tooth has a very shallow nutrient groove with a foramina. Is that what you see in looking at the tooth? Marco Sr. "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowsharks Posted February 12, 2014 Author Share Posted February 12, 2014 Daryl It looks from the pictures like the tooth has a very shallow nutrient groove with a foramina. Is that what you see in looking at the tooth? Marco Sr. Marco, yes, the tooth does appear to have a very faint nutrient groove and a nutrient foramina. What is also interesting and odd is the round/curved nature of the crown. I thinking that the combo of the nutrient groove, foramina, serrations changing from coarse to fine, and slight bend in crown along the longest edge should be helpful in ID'ing the tooth. One possibility that first ran through my head was a Blue shark tooth, Prionace glauca, but that tooth hasn't been reported from Lee Creek. Another possibility might be Carcharhinus galapagensis White Tip shark? I wish it were a juvenile form of a serrated A. grandis as Don and Mike suggested, but the nutrient groove I think rules that out. Daryl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snolly50 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 The photos are very well done. It's great to see quality images. Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, also are remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. - Douglas Adams, Last Chance to See Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Comparison with Prionace glauca on left - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 And here - http://www.thefossilforum.com/uploads/monthly_10_2009/post-1286-12564499031032.jpg http://www.buriedtreasurefossils.com/Peru_Other_Sharks2.htm - scroll down http://www.buriedtreasurefossils.com/other_shark_teeth.htm - scroll down http://www.buriedtreasurefossils.com/South_Carolina_Fossil_Shark_Teeth.htm - scroll down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Daryl, I don't think it's Prionace because I would expect the nutrient groove to be more distinct though that can be easily masked by erosion. However, your tooth appears well-preserved and not worn. The serrations should be coarser about mid-crown mesially and distally for Prionace. I think it could be an upper lateral-posterior Carcharhinus galapagensis though I can't really back that up too well. It seems narrow for C. obscurus especially if it's an upper lateral-posterior but maybe. An oddball tooth in any case. Cool find. Jess Marco, yes, the tooth does appear to have a very faint nutrient groove and a nutrient foramina. What is also interesting and odd is the round/curved nature of the crown. I thinking that the combo of the nutrient groove, foramina, serrations changing from coarse to fine, and slight bend in crown along the longest edge should be helpful in ID'ing the tooth. One possibility that first ran through my head was a Blue shark tooth, Prionace glauca, but that tooth hasn't been reported from Lee Creek. Another possibility might be Carcharhinus galapagensis White Tip shark? I wish it were a juvenile form of a serrated A. grandis as Don and Mike suggested, but the nutrient groove I think rules that out. Daryl. Marco, yes, the tooth does appear to have a very faint nutrient groove and a nutrient foramina. What is also interesting and odd is the round/curved nature of the crown. I thinking that the combo of the nutrient groove, foramina, serrations changing from coarse to fine, and slight bend in crown along the longest edge should be helpful in ID'ing the tooth. One possibility that first ran through my head was a Blue shark tooth, Prionace glauca, but that tooth hasn't been reported from Lee Creek. Another possibility might be Carcharhinus galapagensis White Tip shark? I wish it were a juvenile form of a serrated A. grandis as Don and Mike suggested, but the nutrient groove I think rules that out. Daryl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixgill pete Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) Daryl taking a second look, I agree due to the faint nutrient groove, A. grandis is most likely ruled out. C. galapagensis is a possibility as is C. longimanus the Oceanic whitetip. Edited February 12, 2014 by sixgill pete Bulldozers and dirt Bulldozers and dirt behind the trailer, my desert Them red clay piles are heaven on earth I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt Patterson Hood; Drive-By Truckers May 2016 May 2012 Aug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 Oct 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busyeagle Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Neat tooth Daryl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavialboy Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 beautiful giant thresher shark tooth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) Marco, yes, the tooth does appear to have a very faint nutrient groove and a nutrient foramina. What is also interesting and odd is the round/curved nature of the crown. I thinking that the combo of the nutrient groove, foramina, serrations changing from coarse to fine, and slight bend in crown along the longest edge should be helpful in ID'ing the tooth. One possibility that first ran through my head was a Blue shark tooth, Prionace glauca, but that tooth hasn't been reported from Lee Creek. Another possibility might be Carcharhinus galapagensis White Tip shark? I wish it were a juvenile form of a serrated A. grandis as Don and Mike suggested, but the nutrient groove I think rules that out. Daryl. Daryl, I don't think it's Prionace because I would expect the nutrient groove to be more distinct though that can be easily masked by erosion. However, your tooth appears well-preserved and not worn. The serrations should be coarser about mid-crown mesially and distally for Prionace. I think it could be an upper lateral-posterior Carcharhinus galapagensis though I can't really back that up too well. It seems narrow for C. obscurus especially if it's an upper lateral-posterior but maybe. An oddball tooth in any case. Cool find. Jess Daryl It is a really beautiful specimen and one that is very uncommon from Lee Creek as a species and/or tooth position. I looked at pictures of all of the Alopias grandis that I, Marco Jr. and Mel have, in addition to a good number of pictures on the internet and I could not find a specimen with a nutrient groove and foramina. Based upon the links which Walt posted and other pictures of modern Prionace teeth I found on the internet, your specimen does not seem to fully match. I agree with Jess that the nutrient groove is too shallow and I feel that both the serrations/serration pattern also doesn't quite match. Prionace also is a Pliocene to recent genus which means it wouldn't have come from the Pungo River but could be from the Yorktown or James City etc. from Lee Creek. My original thought was an upper posterior Carcharhinus. I definitely think C. galapagensis is a real good possibility. However I agree with Don and Jess that it could be another Carcharhinus species. My problem is matching your tooth's shape to a position in one of the Carcharhinus dentitions which I can find on the internet. I see several similar posterior or lateral-posterior shapes but nothing that strikes me as an identical shape match. Marco Sr. Edited February 12, 2014 by MarcoSr "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowsharks Posted February 12, 2014 Author Share Posted February 12, 2014 Guys, thank you for the research and ID inputs; appreciate you all taking the time to assist with the research on this tooth. I also sent Bill H. a PM to ask his opinion as well since he did most of the Carcharhinus work/pics for elasmo, and he has several extant jaws at home for reference. In addition to C. galapagensis and C. leucas, I'm also looking at a possible variant of C. plumbeus (Sandbar shark). On one hand it is exciting to come across something different like this tooth, but then it stinks when you can get a firm ID. Seems like I have at least 3 or 4 shark teeth now in my collection that fall into this category of uncertainty. I'll keep you posted if anything new developments arise. Daryl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Daryl Nice find. A few years back I found a similar tooth in the Yorktown Formation at Lee Creek. I donated it to the Smithsonian. Bob Purdy originally thought it was Prionace but when I got the accession letter he had changed his mind and decided it belonged to C. altimus, the bignose shark. I forgot to take a picture of the tooth before I donated it but it had the same curved blade as yours but I don't remember it having the distal heel that your tooth has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) Guys, thank you for the research and ID inputs; appreciate you all taking the time to assist with the research on this tooth. I also sent Bill H. a PM to ask his opinion as well since he did most of the Carcharhinus work/pics for elasmo, and he has several extant jaws at home for reference. In addition to C. galapagensis and C. leucas, I'm also looking at a possible variant of C. plumbeus (Sandbar shark). On one hand it is exciting to come across something different like this tooth, but then it stinks when you can get a firm ID. Seems like I have at least 3 or 4 shark teeth now in my collection that fall into this category of uncertainty. I'll keep you posted if anything new developments arise. Daryl. Daryl Check out the below links to J-elasmo. You can see the recent dentitions of a lot of the sharks that we are discussing. http://homepage2.nifty.com/megalodon/JAWCarcharhinidae.html http://homepage2.nifty.com/megalodon/JAWCarcharhinidae3.html Marco Sr. Edited February 12, 2014 by MarcoSr "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowsharks Posted February 13, 2014 Author Share Posted February 13, 2014 Thanks Marco, that site is great. I don't think I had seen that before. Lots of great pictures there. There was one type of carcharhinid shark jaw that had teeth somewhat similar to my tooth, but the jaw was labeled "unidentified". By the way, after Bob Purdy retired from the Smithsonian, who took over as the "shark" expert? Daryl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lissa318 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Great tooth and I have been checking up on this post! Sure hope you find an ID!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Thanks Marco, that site is great. I don't think I had seen that before. Lots of great pictures there. There was one type of carcharhinid shark jaw that had teeth somewhat similar to my tooth, but the jaw was labeled "unidentified". By the way, after Bob Purdy retired from the Smithsonian, who took over as the "shark" expert? Daryl. Daryl I thought the "unidentified" jaw had teeth that actually looked the closest to your tooth of all the other Carcharhinus dentitions shown. Marco Sr. "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeDOTB Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Hey, if I can put my two cents in, it's a nice tooth but I feel it's a bit more worn especially on the root than y'all admit. It's not uncommon for Pliocene teeth to get mixed in with the pungo reject material sometimes. Last time I was there I saw a nice lady state she found a perfect little meg. Of course I asked to see it and it was a flawless great white! Daryl did you find this in the mine itself or in the reject material from the piles in front of the museum? I don't agree with alopias either, blue shark had possibilities but I don't think that's right either. I'm thinking another carcharinus species with just a bit abnormal extra crown curvature. Daryl again it's a great tooth! DO, or do not. There is no try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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