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Mazon Creek ID Help Request

Jones1rocks

By Jones1rocks
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Jones1rocks Regular Member

Jones1rocks

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I've purchased 'The Mazon Creek Fossil Fauna' by Jack Wittry, and have been fascinated, and nearly overwhelmed, by the wealth of information presented. With the great descriptions and photography, I've been able to identify quite a number of pieces in my collection, but it has been difficult for many of the specimens. I'm certain that this is the normal course of education that most of you have undergone over a period of years, and I'm sure that experience and familiarity will help. I'm requesting your help with identification on some of the more difficult pieces I've run into so far. The first one may simply be a seed pod or some other type of flora that wouldn't have been in the book, but on the chance it might be a coprolite, I'm asking for help:

There are two 'pods' in the concretion. Each measures approximately 3/16" x 5/16". The photos are of the positive and negative of one of the pods. Second image in next post.

post-6617-0-97657500-1452721294_thumb.jpg
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Jones1rocks Regular Member

Jones1rocks

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The second one is roughly 5/8" in length (sorry, I'm a carpenter!), and once again, I'll post the positive and negative.

post-6617-0-09022300-1452721762_thumb.jpg post-6617-0-45374900-1452721803_thumb.jpg

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fossilized6s Regular Member

fossilized6s

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Your first object looks like seed pods, but I'm not 100% sure. Your second associated piece appears to be flora of some kind.

Your third looks like calcite build up at the end of an Essexella jellyfish (I think I see tentacles)

Your forth is a Sea Cucumber

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~Charlie~

"There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why.....i dream of things that never were, and ask why not?" ~RFK
->Get your Mosasaur print
->How to spot a fake Trilobite
->How to identify a CONCRETION from a DINOSAUR EGG

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Jones1rocks Regular Member

Jones1rocks

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Your first object looks like seed pods, but I'm not 100% sure. Your second associated piece appears to be flora of some kind.

Your third looks like calcite build up at the end of an Essexella jellyfish (I think I see tentacles)

Your forth is a Sea Cucumber

Thank you, fossilized6s!

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Auspex Regular Member

Auspex

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I swear those seeds look modern; were they inside a concretion? I have never seen that degree of preservation, even from Mazon.

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"There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant

“Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley

>Paleontology is an evolving science.

>May your wonders never cease!

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paleoflor Regular Member

paleoflor

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I swear those seeds look modern; were they inside a concretion? I have never seen that degree of preservation, even from Mazon.

Yes, you could almost plant them :D Superb fossil!

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Searching for green in the dark grey.

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Auspex Regular Member

Auspex

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Yes, you could almost plant them :D Superb fossil!

I'm serious; this cannot be a fossil from a nodule:

post-423-0-92133900-1452728763_thumb.jpg

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"There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant

“Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley

>Paleontology is an evolving science.

>May your wonders never cease!

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Runner64 Regular Member

Runner64

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I'm serious; this cannot be a fossil from a nodule:

attachicon.gif~.jpg

One way to tell is if they feel like a rock. When I first saw that fossil, I thought it was modern also.
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Jones1rocks Regular Member

Jones1rocks

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I'll post a few more pictures. The 'seeds' are minute, and in several places nearly completely embedded in the 'calcite' matrix, as you can see in the photos. I tried to tap it with a stainless steel dental point, but they seemed firmly attached, and are so minute, that I was afraid of dislodging them for fear of ruining the specimen. One of the visible seed 'flakes' was so thin, it easily detached from the seed with pressure from the instrument.

post-6617-0-60969200-1452730060_thumb.jpg

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RCFossils Regular Member

RCFossils

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The first specimen is definitely a seed pod.

I have not seen one preserved in that manner from the Mazon Creek deposit but have seen something very similar from a site in Southern Indiana.

The second specimen appears to be a poorly preserved pecopteris.

The third specimen is a jellyfish Essexella asherae.

The fourth specimen is a Echiuran worm Coprinoscolex.

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izak_ Regular Member

izak_

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I swear those seeds look modern; were they inside a concretion? I have never seen that degree of preservation, even from Mazon.

Thats what I thought...

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Auspex Regular Member

Auspex

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I'll post a few more pictures. The 'seeds' are minute, and in several places nearly completely embedded in the 'calcite' matrix, as you can see in the photos. I tried to tap it with a stainless steel dental point, but they seemed firmly attached, and are so minute, that I was afraid of dislodging them for fear of ruining the specimen. One of the visible seed 'flakes' was so thin, it easily detached from the seed with pressure from the instrument.

attachicon.gifDSC_2041.JPG

I am amazed! The preservation is incredible. This is really unique in my experience.

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"There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant

“Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley

>Paleontology is an evolving science.

>May your wonders never cease!

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PA Fossil Finder Regular Member

PA Fossil Finder

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I'll post a few more pictures. The 'seeds' are minute, and in several places nearly completely embedded in the 'calcite' matrix, as you can see in the photos. I tried to tap it with a stainless steel dental point, but they seemed firmly attached, and are so minute, that I was afraid of dislodging them for fear of ruining the specimen. One of the visible seed 'flakes' was so thin, it easily detached from the seed with pressure from the instrument.

attachicon.gifDSC_2041.JPG

The preservation on those really is incredible! They look like you could plant them and grow your own Carboniferous plants... Did you find that concretion broken open, or did you split it yourself? Could it be some sort of fungus or something that grew inside or on the concretion?

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Stephen

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Rockwood Regular Member

Rockwood

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Calcite is a soluble mineral. Notice how the seed shape is not reflected in the concretion it's self. My vote is that it is relatively modern deposit.

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paleoflor Regular Member

paleoflor

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Since there are both part and counterpart, showing the same pattern, I'm inclined to think these are fossil. Not sure how this works in gymnosperms, etc., but the seed coats in modern flowering plants can be quite durable, perhaps allowing such a preservation. Calcite may have replaced the less durable pod containing the preserved seeds. This would explain why the seeds form is not present in the concretion, which would then follow the contours of the pod, not the individual seeds.

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Searching for green in the dark grey.

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Auspex Regular Member

Auspex

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It is the part-counterpart fact that kept me from suggesting bird poop.

"There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant

“Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley

>Paleontology is an evolving science.

>May your wonders never cease!

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Rockaholic Regular Member

Rockaholic

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If these are 300 million year old seeds this is truly an incredible find!To explain how a modern seed could be incased in a concretion would be almost equally incredible. Was this nodule found open?If it was found in one piece did it have any cracks or chambers in it?I’ve found concretions with openings and a chamber lined with calcite.

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ntrusc Regular Member

ntrusc

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Nice finds, could the seed pods be Lepidocystis sp?, found a couple of similar nodules over here in the UK that may be Lepidocystis, I think there's some pictures in the Jack Wittry book you mentioned.

Thanks

Neil.

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ntrusc Regular Member

ntrusc

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http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/gallery/image/19993-sporepod2/

http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/gallery/image/19992-sporepod1/

http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/gallery/image/19991-unidentified-cluster-of-spore-bearing-pods/

A few pics of the UK examples I mentioned.

Thanks

Neil.

Edited by ntrusc
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