Where to find Plant fossils

[Zenmaster6]

Currently I am fascinated with prehistoric plants from Carboniferous, Permian, Triassic, Jurassic and Cretaceous specifically. However Eocene, Oligocene and Miocene are also awesome.

I heard coal mines were great places to find plant fossils. Where should I look? Inside the coal mine, in siltstone or shale around the coal mine? Along the river?
I have never found plant fossils before and was wondering where other people find them. I've scrolled through the forums and seen peoples finds but have no idea what it looks like to find plants.
Finding brachiopods or gastropods is easy, the shell pops out usually no matter where you hit it. But plants are near 2 dimensional and you could go through a ton of plants vertically and have no idea.
So if you have any advice you'd like to share, please let me know.

[caldigger]

I am sure if you researched the web a bit, you could come up with lots of information on Washington plant fossil locals.

Here are some that may be able to assist what to look for. @nala @Ptychodus04

[Ptychodus04]

@Zenmaster6, what part of Washington are you in? I know of a site in far northwestern Washington.

[Zenmaster6]

21 minutes ago, Ptychodus04 said:

@Zenmaster6, what part of Washington are you in? I know of a site in far northwestern Washington.

I live in Tacoma Washington in the Puget Sound. I know of Chuckanut, Racehorse, Carbonado, Franklin Ghost town and salmon creek but they are all covered in snow at the moment until april.

[caldigger]

Only a couple of months away, patience my young Zen master. 

[Zenmaster6]

1 hour ago, caldigger said:

Only a couple of months away, patience my young Zen master. 

Ah, but Caldigger, even one such as yourself knows that a couple months to someone with fossil fever is multiplied by 20. 
60 days = a subjective 1200 days. 
That's too long.
To be fair, I moved to Alaska in September and have seen nothing but snow for the last 6 months. 

6 months = nearly 10 years without fossils
When I came back to Washington, the polar vortex and what not caused abnormal winter weather, now its basically still Alaska :/ 

[siteseer]

3 hours ago, Zenmaster6 said:

I live in Tacoma Washington in the Puget Sound. I know of Chuckanut, Racehorse, Carbonado, Franklin Ghost town and salmon creek but they are all covered in snow at the moment until april.

 

Have you been to Republic?  I heard you can collect your own fossils there but you can keep only one specimen.  The rest stay with the institution that oversees the site.  You can find very nice leaves, flowers, seeds, and even insects there.  Check this out:

 

https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3263/5/3/243/htm

 

 

[Ptychodus04]

Do you know of the road slide on 11 just south of Bellingham? It is Chuckanut Formation and probably isn’t covered in snow.

[FranzBernhard]

12 hours ago, Zenmaster6 said:

I heard coal mines were great places to find plant fossils. Where should I look? Inside the coal mine, in siltstone or shale around the coal mine? Along the river?

That´s true, the hanging wall rocks of coal seams - but not too far away from the seam - are often rich in plant fossils. Shale and siltstone is good.

You have shown us some coal occurrences and you have also described a small seam. Did you have a look in the hanging wall rocks of this seam? Look in the debris below, if you can find fragments of shale/siltsone with plant fragments on it. If there is no debris, just split a few samples.

Yes, it is often difficult to recognize the productive layers. But often, the layers split along the plant fossils and often you can see dark or black hairlines in side view - with some luck, these hairlines are not just more ore less structureless plant debris, but well-defined leaves. 

Maybe @nala, @Plantguy can give further general advice?

Franz Bernhard

[Rockin' Ric]

Coal mines are great places to find fossils, that is if you have permission to hunt there. It is in the spoil piles that litter the mine is where most of the fossils will be found. Seek permission...better yet find a local rock/paleo club near where you live and join, the group may have access to some of these mines? If you are fortunate to find a rock / road cut and there is a coal seam running through it. Search the eroded rock at the bottom of each cut, you will usually find plant fossils there. If the coal seam is within reach, approximately 1'-3' above and below that seam is the layers that contain plant debris. Never been to the state so I dunno what the geography is like there. Down here in Bama, I have found this to be true and have found plenty of really nice specimens. Good luck!

[Zenmaster6]

12 hours ago, siteseer said:

 

Have you been to Republic?  I heard you can collect your own fossils there but you can keep only one specimen.  The rest stay with the institution that oversees the site.  You can find very nice leaves, flowers, seeds, and even insects there.  Check this out:

 

https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3263/5/3/243/htm

 

 

Republic is closed during the winter and is quite far from me. I would have to drive through the cascades during the winter storm :/ 
 

[Zenmaster6]

5 hours ago, FranzBernhard said:

That´s true, the hanging wall rocks of coal seams - but not too far away from the seam - are often rich in plant fossils. Shale and siltstone is good.

You have shown us some coal occurrences and you have also described a small seam. Did you have a look in the hanging wall rocks of this seam? Look in the debris below, if you can find fragments of shale/siltsone with plant fragments on it. If there is no debris, just split a few samples.

Yes, it is often difficult to recognize the productive layers. But often, the layers split along the plant fossils and often you can see dark or black hairlines in side view - with some luck, these hairlines are not just more ore less structureless plant debris, but well-defined leaves. 

Maybe @nala, @Plantguy can give further general advice?

Franz Bernhard

True. I looked underneath on possible rubble on the ground and also rocks above and below the coal line, but it was very strange. All the sediment was soft like that moon sand stuff or kinetic sand from the store. 
Everything crumbled super easily and was more like loose sand binded together very feeble and fragile. It also absorbed water very well as the minute it fell in the river it would disintegrate or become mushy. I would guess sandstone but it was not resistant to the elements at all so I have no clue. (Its not peat either as it has sand size grains.)

[Zenmaster6]

4 hours ago, Rockin' Ric said:

Coal mines are great places to find fossils, that is if you have permission to hunt there. It is in the spoil piles that litter the mine is where most of the fossils will be found. Seek permission...better yet find a local rock/paleo club near where you live and join, the group may have access to some of these mines? If you are fortunate to find a rock / road cut and there is a coal seam running through it. Search the eroded rock at the bottom of each cut, you will usually find plant fossils there. If the coal seam is within reach, approximately 1'-3' above and below that seam is the layers that contain plant debris. Never been to the state so I dunno what the geography is like there. Down here in Bama, I have found this to be true and have found plenty of really nice specimens. Good luck!

The coal mines are open to the public because they are abandoned. They should still have fossils though. Thanks for this advice. +1 for information about how far from the coal seam to look. Thanks  

[Rockin' Ric]

7 minutes ago, Zenmaster6 said:

True. I looked underneath on possible rubble on the ground and also rocks above and below the coal line, but it was very strange. All the sediment was soft like that moon sand stuff or kinetic sand from the store. 
Everything crumbled super easily and was more like loose sand binded together very feeble and fragile. It also absorbed water very well as the minute it fell in the river it would disintegrate or become mushy. I would guess sandstone but it was not resistant to the elements at all so I have no clue. (Its not peat either as it has sand size grains.)

 

Yeah, the really soft layer that sits on top of the coal seam is I think some type of mudstone. It is very crumbly and most of the time contains the most moisture. The layer gets harder further away and it's in that layer where I found most of my fern fossils as well as Calamites.

[Zenmaster6]

5 minutes ago, Rockin' Ric said:

 

Yeah, the really soft layer that sits on top of the coal seam is I think some type of mudstone. It is very crumbly and most of the time contains the most moisture. The layer gets harder further away and it's in that layer where I found most of my fern fossils as well as Calamites.

Calamites is my favorite plant fossil ever. But this area I am looking is around Eocene. Calamites were extinct way before this period of time

 

[nala]

Don't know if it the same in the States(i hunt in Northern France)in the spoil piles that litter the mine ,it's the best,it's possible to see the sites with google sat,you have to split many Rocks(schistes) to find good one,with the time you will split only the good rocks,and have a little luck  

[siteseer]

On 2/25/2019 at 12:18 PM, Zenmaster6 said:

Republic is closed during the winter and is quite far from me. I would have to drive through the cascades during the winter storm :/ 
 

 

Yeah, I was told it was a long drive from Seattle, but if you're really into plants, you should check that out.  One friend found a nice, large leaf and another found a smaller leaf she was very happy with.

 

Jess

[Zenmaster6]

1 hour ago, siteseer said:

 

Yeah, I was told it was a long drive from Seattle, but if you're really into plants, you should check that out.  One friend found a nice, large leaf and another found a smaller leaf she was very happy with.

 

Jess

Thanks. Its on my bucket list

[Plantguy]

I havent collected in Washington but have this small sample from the Bellingham area. I dont have any provenance specifics. I suspect its Eocene Chuckanut but dont know..

I suspect you already have this document. 

http://www.dnr.wa.gov/Publications/ger_washington_geology_1997_v25_no3.pdf

 

Your best chances are looking for fine grained sediments like shale/sandstones associated with the coal or in formations with no coal. Good to have a good rock pic with a chisel end and some wider cold chisels to do splitting and something to wrap the finds in. Check spoils from the area for any exposed bits and pieces. If you are working with something like this specimen you'll need some magnifier/and picks/hand tools or some type or abrader to expose stuff slowly while doing prep work from home. 

 

Good luck when the ground thaws/snow melts!

Regards, Chris 

[FossilDAWG]

I just looked at the Stonerose web site; that is the interpretation center in Republic that runs the fossil site.  You can choose 3 fossils to keep, which seems a bit skimpy but it's better than only 1.  Anyway the diversity and preservation there is fantastic so it's well worth a visit, especially if you can include it as a stop in a multi-stop fossil trip.

 

The Chuckanut has been known to produce some great plant fossils up around Bellingham.

 

I don't recommend actually entering abandoned coal mines.  You can go in and never come out, especially if you start hammering at the ceiling.  Generally spoil piles are the way to go.  The rock is already dug up for you, all you have to do is find some big chunks and start splitting.

 

Don

 

 

[ynot]

1 hour ago, FossilDAWG said:

I don't recommend actually entering abandoned coal mines.  You can go in and never come out, especially if you start hammering at the ceiling.

Poison gas pockets don't help either.

[Auspex]

Diatryma tracks occur in the Chuckanut Fm...If you get there, check out the Racehorse Landslide.