A curious Florida Whale tooth

[Shellseeker]

I have missed fossil hunting most of the last month with rains making the rivers and creeks too deep,  travel north and other commitments. So today , I went out with frequent hunting companion, Steve. Steve sells many of his better fossils,  but he knows that I focus on small horses and marine mammal.  When he finds one of those, he may give it to me, and I decided how much it is worth.

I had a very good day, but Steve had a better one. and he gave me this 3+ inch whale tooth.

 

At 1st I thought it had an enamel tip, which would have been really surprising. So, cementum flaked off, almost everything remaining is dentine.  Found in Southwest Florida, this tooth is almost certainly Kogiopsis .sp (Dwarf Sperm Whale).

 

I am wondering about a couple of fossil questions:

1) Does anyone have insights on the disappearing cementum process.  Is it chemical based or possibly time based?  I have found teeth that retain ALL cementum and others which have no cementum.

.

 

 

This tooth is highly unusual because it seems to have been calcified ?, or agatized ? or something during fossilization. Only the 2nd whale tooth I have ever seen like this.Once again, what process occurs during the fosslization to crystalize or semi_crystalize the fossil.  Thanks for any and all insights.

[Shellseeker]

Steve found many bits and pieces of Kogiopsis teeth including 2 bigger pieces in the exact same location. There is different types of fossilization, including this to section... There is so many whale tooth fragments (maybe from 5-6 different teeth, makes me wonder if a whale died there.)

 

 

curiouser and curiouser:

Why does the top tooth (white_bluish agatizing) fill the root cavity and this last tooth fills some of the root cavity leaving an empty core to the tip? Why does this last tooth show the circular growth bands of dentine and the 1st tooth does not...

 

It comes down to my lack of understanding of the fossilization processes fro these whale teeth...

[siteseer]

Hi Jack,

 

First of all, those whale teeth with no enamel have always been weird to me.  After I started collecting and doing my own digging, I realized that those teeth weren't just worn.  They never had enamel.  I assume it's just part of the evolutionary trend among the various groups of losing their teeth.  The teeth got smaller and more simple in form and composition as some groups became suction feeders.  Specialized teeth are unnecessary (or they don't provide a survival advantage) when you are eating bite-size fish and squid that are swallowed whole.

 

I think the difference in preservation could just be that they are from different beds or just different areas.  A lot of my collecting has been done in the Sharktooth Hill Bonebed.  I have found different types of those enamel-less teeth.  Some seem to have eroded like yours.  Some of the teeth seem to have more mineralized and even translucent tips.  It's just the luck of preservation.  Some teeth were mineralized but were later bleached out and weakened by being close to the surface or by changes in groundwater.  

 

After reading about whales (Bobby's stuff and others), I think it's possible we're just seeing a lot of variation among juveniles and adults.  There's a figure in the fourth Lee Creek volume (Ray et al., eds., 2008) that shows a wide variation in tooth types just among the modern sperm whale species, Physeter catodon (slender curved teeth, short conical, fluted).  We might expect  that much variation when the Phseteridae was more generically diverse. 

 

Jess

 

Ray, C.E., D.J. Bohaska, I.A. Koretsky, L.W. Ward, and L.G. Barnes (eds.).  2008.

Geology and Paleontology of the Lee Creek Mine, North Carolina, IV.  Virginia Museum of Natural History Special Publication 14.

[Shellseeker]

7 hours ago, siteseer said:

First of all, those whale teeth with no enamel have always been weird to me.  After I started collecting and doing my own digging, I realized that those teeth weren't just worn.  They never had enamel.  I assume it's just part of the evolutionary trend among the various groups of losing their teeth.  The teeth got smaller and more simple in form and composition as some groups became suction feeders.  Specialized teeth are unnecessary (or they don't provide a survival advantage) when you are eating bite-size fish and squid that are swallowed whole.

So, we have a few common whale teeth in SW Florida: Scaldicetus (Enamel Tip) . I and others have found this tooth in the Peace River (thus the dark Black color).  It can range up to 6 or 7 inches.

 

 

The 2nd (and most common) type is Kogiopsis .sp (Pygmy Sperm Whale). It has no enamel , consisting of Dentine and Cementum (which can peal off. Medium size up to 5.5 inches.

 

The 3rd type is unnamed for Florida... It is very similar to A. morricei from STH

" At least four apparently distantly related, mid-size fossil physeteroid species are known to have possessed teeth without enamel. They are Orycterocerus crocodilinus Cope, 1868, of Miocene age from Maryland and Virginia, Aulophyseter morricei Kellogg, 1917, of Middle Miocene age from California, Kogiopsis floridana Kellogg, 1929, of Pliocene age from Florida, and Physeterula dubusii Van Beneden, 1877, of Middle Miocene to Early Pliocene age from Europe. Although these taxa can be easily distinguished from one another by the sizes and shapes of their teeth, striking similarities in dental character of certain of these fossil types overlap with those of species in the two living physeteroid genera, Kogia and Physeter, which also lack enamel. "

 

Quote

 

I think the difference in preservation could just be that they are from different beds or just different areas.  A lot of my collecting has been done in the Sharktooth Hill Bonebed.  I have found different types of those enamel-less teeth.  Some seem to have eroded like yours.  Some of the teeth seem to have more mineralized and even translucent tips.  It's just the luck of preservation.  Some teeth were mineralized but were later bleached out and weakened by being close to the surface or by changes in groundwater.  

I tend to agree. I get a large range of fossilization results .  Writing down these questions is my attempt to see if other TFF members, interested in Whale Teeth, have seen any data or papers that shed light on the answers to my questions. You have provided a good document the in fourth Lee Creek volume (Ray et al., eds., 2008. I will let you know what I think after I read it.

 

 

Quote

 

After reading about whales (Bobby's stuff and others), I think it's possible we're just seeing a lot of variation among juveniles and adults.  There's a figure in the fourth Lee Creek volume (Ray et al., eds., 2008) that shows a wide variation in tooth types just among the modern sperm whale species, Physeter catodon (slender curved teeth, short conical, fluted).  We might expect  that much variation when the Phseteridae was more generically diverse. 

 

It is difficult to discuss many items simultaneously.  With these 2 examples of what I believe to be Kogiopsis ..sp let me ask 2 questions: 1) Is the hollow core typical of some Kogiopsis teeth but not all? 2) If there exists a hollow core, could the fossilization process fill it.

.

[siteseer]

I think Bobby has said in another thread that a hollow tooth is an indicator of a juvenile - a tooth that wasn't fully formed when the individual died.  Pardon me if I'm misrepresenting.

[Shellseeker]

17 minutes ago, siteseer said:

I think Bobby has said in another thread that a hollow tooth is an indicator of a juvenile - a tooth that wasn't fully formed when the individual died.  Pardon me if I'm misrepresenting.

Thanks, Jess. I had a memory of Bobby answering that question previously , but could not find the reference thread and did not want to misrepresent the meaning of a hollow tooth. Decided to post and see if someone else did. @Brondonh may also be interested in your comment.

[siteseer]

9 minutes ago, Shellseeker said:

Thanks, Jess. I had a memory of Bobby answering that question previously , but could not find the reference thread and did not want to misrepresent the meaning of a hollow tooth. Decided to post and see if someone else did. @Brondonh may also be interested in your comment.

 

Well, if we both remember it, we're in the clear.  Maybe we're spending too much time staring at whale teeth so we can use that as an excuse if we're wrong.  Sometimes, there is no significance or it is unknown in our time.

Edited October 9, 2021 by siteseer