Oglesby Fossil ID Part 2

[Joseph Fossil]

I've visited Oglesby Illinois a couple of times to collect fossils from the road outcrops with Pennsyvanian era fossils - which so far is one of the best fossil locations I've been to so far besides Mazon Creek!

 

On one of these trips, I found what I believe to be extremely Chondricthyan teeth with each only around  1-2 mm. Would anyone be able to give an ID for these specimens?

[Joseph Fossil]

Also, here are a few larger fossils (at least a few centimeters in length) that I am not sure what they are (maybe Petaldodus)?

[deutscheben]

2 hours ago, Joseph Fossil said:

Also, here are a few larger fossils (at least a few centimeters in length) that I am not sure what they are (maybe Petaldodus)?

 

Welcome to the informal La Salle Limestone collecting club! It seems there are more of us every month .

 

None of these appear to be Petalodus, but the first one is definitely a crusher tooth from a chondrichthyan like Deltodus (it can be hard to make definitive IDs for crusher teeth). The third one looks like very fragmentary fish remains, but I don't think there is enough to say more than that. I'm honestly not sure what the second one is from this picture. 

 

I can't tell what any of the items in your first post are- all of the detail is obscured by the lighting. 

[Joseph Fossil]

@deutscheben I'm glad to be part of the La Salle Club! Deltodus seems like a good ID for the first one! I tried for the first post to get as much lighting as possible, but the Microscope I used had a dim light and was made back in 2003!

 

[Joseph Fossil]

@deutscheben  One thing I've been scratching my head about recently is the lack of really large Ctenacanthiformes from the Bond Formation (i.e. Gilkmanius and Saivodus striatus). I know Saivodus striatus is really only known from the Mississippian, but I heard they found Permian remains of an unnamed Saivodus species in Arizona around 2012. 

 

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/254237970_Ctenacanthiform_sharks_from_the_Permian_Kaibab_Formation_northern_Arizona

 

Hodnett, John-Paul & Elliott, David & Olson, Tom & Wittke, James. (2012). Ctenacanthiform sharks from the Permian Kaibab Formation, northern Arizona. Historical Biology. 24. 1-15. 10.1080/08912963.2012.683193.

 

I heard a while ago someone found a Gilkmanius tooth from the Bond Formation, but I'm just curious why no one has found Saivodus remains in La Salle?

[connorp]

4 minutes ago, Joseph Fossil said:

@deutscheben  One thing I've been scratching my head about recently is the lack of really large Ctenacanthiformes from the Bond Formation (i.e. Gilkmanius and Saivodus striatus). I know Saivodus striatus is really only known from the Mississippian, but I heard they found Permian remains of an unnamed Saivodus species in Arizona around 2012. 

 

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/254237970_Ctenacanthiform_sharks_from_the_Permian_Kaibab_Formation_northern_Arizona

 

Hodnett, John-Paul & Elliott, David & Olson, Tom & Wittke, James. (2012). Ctenacanthiform sharks from the Permian Kaibab Formation, northern Arizona. Historical Biology. 24. 1-15. 10.1080/08912963.2012.683193.

 

I heard a while ago someone found a Gilkmanius tooth from the Bond Formation, but I'm just curious why no one has found Saivodus remains in La Salle?

Several larger cladodont teeth have been found there.

[Joseph Fossil]

@connorp Well that's cool! I'm a bit surprised though! Do you know when they were found and what species they belonged too?

[Joseph Fossil]

@connorp @deutscheben I also heard about something interesting recently amount the age of the rocks from DuPage County. I was checking for new fossil sites to go to when I checked on Mindat and found out the age of DuPage's rocks is Carboniferous!

 

https://www.mindat.org/loc-168997.html 

 

I haven't heard of any Carboniferous rocks that close to Lake Michigan, with the closet being in Grundy! Is it true and are there any good fossil sites in DuPage?

[deutscheben]

40 minutes ago, Joseph Fossil said:

@connorp Well that's cool! I'm a bit surprised though! Do you know when they were found and what species they belonged too?

I have two nearly complete Glikmanius which have been posted here, although they are both fairly small (1.5-2 cm central cusp), as well as a much larger partial one (and a number of smaller partials). I am not aware of any specimens of Saivodus being found here.

[Joseph Fossil]

@deutscheben That's awesome! As I was reading the 2012 paper, what struck me as interesting was the Saivodus species at the Kaibab Formation, Arizona was notably smaller than that of its Mississippian ancestor Saivodus striatus. The largest species from the formation is Kaibabvenator swiftae (which, though massive, was not as large as Saivodus straitus). What I'm curious about is what could've lead post Carboniferous Saivodus species to shrink in size?

[connorp]

7 minutes ago, Joseph Fossil said:

@deutscheben That's awesome! As I was reading the 2012 paper, what struck me as interesting was the Saivodus species at the Kaibab Formation, Arizona was notably smaller than that of its Mississippian ancestor Saivodus striatus. The largest species from the formation is Kaibabvenator swiftae (which, though massive, was not as large as Saivodus straitus). What I'm curious about is what could've lead post Carboniferous Saivodus species to shrink in size?

Considering the lack of body fossils and the gap in time, it's quite possible the teeth came from completely different biological genera.

[Joseph Fossil]

@connorp That makes sense! The paper also described as new shark species named Neosaivodus flagstaffensis, maybe a close relative of Saivodus.

[deutscheben]

21 minutes ago, Joseph Fossil said:

@connorp @deutscheben I also heard about something interesting recently amount the age of the rocks from DuPage County. I was checking for new fossil sites to go to when I checked on Mindat and found out the age of DuPage's rocks is Carboniferous!

 

https://www.mindat.org/loc-168997.html 

 

I haven't heard of any Carboniferous rocks that close to Lake Michigan, with the closet being in Grundy! Is it true and are there any good fossil sites in DuPage?

The Mindat record is based on a single reference from a 1951 paper which describes a Mazon Creek insect being collected from Naperville. Since the Mazon Creek does not run through Naperville, I’m guessing perhaps the collector lived in Naperville instead. 
 

For an accurate view of Illinois bedrock, check out this map from the Illinois State Geological Survey:

 

https://files.isgs.illinois.edu/sites/default/files/maps/statewide/imap14-front.pdf

 

[connorp]

The furthest north I have observed Carboniferous rocks in IL is near the confluence of the Fox and Illinois rivers.

[Joseph Fossil]

21 hours ago, deutscheben said:

The Mindat record is based on a single reference from a 1951 paper which describes a Mazon Creek insect being collected from Naperville. Since the Mazon Creek does not run through Naperville, I’m guessing perhaps the collector lived in Naperville instead. 
 

For an accurate view of Illinois bedrock, check out this map from the Illinois State Geological Survey:

 

https://files.isgs.illinois.edu/sites/default/files/maps/statewide/imap14-front.pdf

 

@deutscheben Thanks for the map! I looked at it last night and it looks like there's a band of Ordovician rocks in DuPage along with a band by the town of Rolling Meadows! I also found that there's a Pennsylvanian formation at Union, McHenry County! Any ideas if those spots have good fossil sites?

[Joseph Fossil]

@deutscheben @connorp I think your right about DuPage. I heard a while ago that someone found a cladodont in DuPage, Elmhurst but I could really find any other leads on this. I did stumble across an old 1899 paper describing Devonian Fossils from quarries in Elmhurst, but it appears there's been no followup on it!

 

https://www.jstor.org/stable/30057108#metadata_info_tab_contents

 

Weller, Stuart. “A Peculiar Devonian Deposit in Northeastern Illinois.” The Journal of Geology, vol. 7, no. 5, 1899, pp. 483–88. JSTOR, http://www.jstor.org/stable/30057108. Accessed 5 Oct. 2022.

 

I question how reliable this paper is (given it's age), but I am curious if there is a Devonian rock band in Elmhurst? 

[Joseph Fossil]

23 minutes ago, Joseph Fossil said:

@deutscheben Thanks for the map! I looked at it last night and it looks like there's a band of Ordovician rocks in DuPage along with a band by the town of Rolling Meadows! I also found that there's a Pennsylvanian formation at Union, McHenry County! Any ideas if those spots have good fossil sites?

Actually never mind about the Union rocks. Just double checked and their Ordovician.