Fish tail and something? SD

[Slow Walker]

Pieces that came from area of Pierre shale SD. Tail is 8in. Unknown corn cob looking piece is 4in. 2 small pieces look to be ribs and organic material. All not cleaned. Rest of fish looks to be in the ground but hard to get. 

What fish might it be and what parts are they? Thanks. 

[Rockwood]

Hypurals of a fish tale is what this looks like to me.

[Rockwood]

You know that might actually be a tail. It's basically the same tale. 

[Fossildude19]

The rest could be fin rays of the caudal fin (or other fins) of whatever fish you found.

[jpc]

and I will say once again, based on preservation and the fact that you keep showing us all these bones, and no baculites or ammonites, you are definitely in the Sharon Springs member.

[Slow Walker]

6 hours ago, jpc said:

and I will say once again, based on preservation and the fact that you keep showing us all these bones, and no baculites or ammonites, you are definitely in the Sharon Springs member.

That's good to know. Is there anything I should know about this formation member?

[Slow Walker]

10 hours ago, Fossildude19 said:

The rest could be fin rays of the caudal fin (or other fins) of whatever fish you found.

I looked at some fish tail fins and can see how the bones line up like the corn cob one. But can't figure why there's bumps in the bones. Any ideas? 

[Slow Walker]

13 hours ago, Rockwood said:

You know that might actually be a tail. It's basically the same tale. 

Thanks, any idea on the corn cob looking one?

[jpc]

1 hour ago, Slow Walker said:

That's good to know. Is there anything I should know about this formation member?

if you find any concretions, look to see if they have bones in them.  They tend to be better preserved but much harder to expose in concretions.   

[Rockwood]

6 hours ago, Slow Walker said:

Thanks, any idea on the corn cob looking one?

 

6 hours ago, Slow Walker said:

I looked at some fish tail fins and can see how the bones line up like the corn cob one. But can't figure why there's bumps in the bones. Any ideas? 

I believe the tail fin bones are actually segmented a little bit like the vertebrae in the spine are. It's easy to scrape small pieces of them away when preparing Green River fish.

[Slow Walker]

12 hours ago, jpc said:

if you find any concretions, look to see if they have bones in them.  They tend to be better preserved but much harder to expose in concretions.   

I have found red ish concretions in other areas with invertebrates but I think it's from higher up in Pierre shale. 

[Slow Walker]

7 hours ago, Rockwood said:

 

I believe the tail fin bones are actually segmented a little bit like the vertebrae in the spine are. It's easy to scrape small pieces of them away when preparing Green River fish.

You think it's the tail bone or the ray fins going out from it? I couldn't see those bumps in related fish fossil pics. 

[Rockwood]

10 minutes ago, Slow Walker said:

You think it's the tail bone or the ray fins going out from it? I couldn't see those bumps in related fish fossil pics. 

Fin rays is probably what I should have said. They preserve much like bone as far as I can tell.  In the photo they do look a little like vertebrae, but I doubt they are.

[Rockwood]

Here is a shot of my Green River prep work. 

Nobody laugh, I was a bit green myself. 

[Slow Walker]

3 hours ago, Rockwood said:

Here is a shot of my Green River prep work. 

Nobody laugh, I was a bit green myself. 

Oh it does look similar. Are those cracks in the fin rays or that's how they are when alive? 

[Rockwood]

11 minutes ago, Slow Walker said:

Are those cracks in the fin rays or that's how they are when alive? 

I think they were that way in life. @Fossildude19 ?

[Fossildude19]

They are individual bones that make up the fins. Those are fin rays.

I think it is likely the OP's fish is some sort of Ichthyodectid.

[Slow Walker]

On 12/14/2022 at 11:03 AM, Fossildude19 said:

They are individual bones that make up the fins. Those are fin rays.

I think it is likely the OP's fish is some sort of Ichthyodectid.

Just to be clear. You are saying this 4in fossil is of the thin fin part of a fish? Do you know of any example fossils that look like it? Thanks

[Fossildude19]

7 hours ago, Slow Walker said:

Just to be clear. You are saying this 4in fossil is of the thin fin part of a fish? Do you know of any example fossils that look like it? Thanks

 

To be clear - Your item is very degraded/poorly preserved, so I don't have any examples of something exactly like it.  It does look similar to fin rays I have seen.

 

There were very large fish in the Cretaceous. Xiphactinus, Bonnerichthys, Protosphyraena to name a few.

 

Here are a few images of  fins of Protosphyraena from the

 

 

10 cm = 3.93 inches.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe we can get some insight from @Ptychodus04    on  your item.

 

[Rockwood]

It seems possible that the shapes seen in poorly preserved material may have been inside the bones during life and have been exposed now because they were slightly more dense to begin with.

[Slow Walker]

1 hour ago, Fossildude19 said:

 

To be clear - Your item is very degraded/poorly preserved, so I don't have any examples of something exactly like it.  It does look similar to fin rays I have seen.

 

There were very large fish in the Cretaceous. Xiphactinus, Bonnerichthys, Protosphyraena to name a few.

 

Here are a few images of  fins of Protosphyraena from the

 

 

10 cm = 3.93 inches.

Maybe we can get some insight from @Ptychodus04    on  your item.

 

 I understand what you're trying to say but I don't see the same type of texture in your photos.

1 hour ago, Rockwood said:

It seems possible that the shapes seen in poorly preserved material may have been inside the bones during life and have been exposed now because they were slightly more dense to begin with.

 This is plausible I wonder if there's any pictures that show the interior of the fins like shown. 

[Fossildude19]

8 minutes ago, Slow Walker said:

 I understand what you're trying to say but I don't see the same type of texture in your photos.

 This is plausible I wonder if there's any pictures that show the interior of the fins like shown. 

 

Images of caudal fins and other fins are not numerous online.  Your specimen is not in the greatest of shape/preservation.

I can't provide anything with the same texture as yours. I searched for quite a while.

Call it a gut feeling of mine that these are fin rays.  

But for identification purposes, you may not get any answers unless you show this to a fossil fish expert.

And ultimately, you may not get any answers.  

Sometimes, that is the way it goes.

 

 

Hey @jpc do you have any suggestions here?

 

Maybe @Carl can show this to Dr. Maisey as well?

[Ptychodus04]

I scrolled up to the top for the OP’s original pics. I think you have a partial Ichtyhodectid tail and fin rays (as others have suggested). The “corncob” piece is likely a partial fin ray that is somewhat compressed laterally so the fin is stacked up on itself, making it look odd. I’ve seen fish preserved is some really odd ways. The weirdest was one that was buried nose down and compressed into a pancake. 
 

Without cranial elements associated with an Ichtyhodectid specimen, you can’t identify any further. They all have the same body structures and the heads are all that is different.

[jpc]

I cannot say anything about which genus of big fish, but I agree that the piece with four parallel rods, if you will, is apiece of fin ray.  The preservation is typical of the Pierre Shale, which is one reason these things are not seen in the commercial market.