Nadav Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 I found this tooth while dissolving a rock from Mishash formation (in southern Israel). Some suggested that it might be a nurse shark tooth or a cat shark tooth. Could you please help me figure it out? And if you know the specific species it would be great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 Hi, Is it a recent one ? The last pics suggest that. Ginglymostomatidae in my opinion. Coco ---------------------- OUTIL POUR MESURER VOS FOSSILES : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 1 (Poissons et sélaciens récents & fossiles) : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 2 (Animaux vivants - sans poissons ni sélaciens) : ici Mâchoires sélaciennes récentes : ici Hétérodontiques et sélaciens : ici Oeufs sélaciens récents : ici Otolithes de poissons récents ! ici Un Greg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandblanc Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 Hi, Nice tooth ! Have a look to protoginglymostoma, or pseudoginglymostoma. Philippe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 Yup. I'm getting a nurse shark vibe from that as well. My experience with this type does not go back as far as the Cretaceous. Possibly @fossilsonwheels has experience with this lineage? Cheers. -Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadav Posted December 25, 2022 Author Share Posted December 25, 2022 On 12/23/2022 at 11:06 AM, Coco said: Hi, Is it a recent one ? The last pics suggest that. Ginglymostomatidae in my opinion. Coco Thank you very much. It's not recent. It's upper Cretaceous. But your suggestion is really close! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadav Posted December 25, 2022 Author Share Posted December 25, 2022 On 12/23/2022 at 1:26 PM, Grandblanc said: Hi, Nice tooth ! Have a look to protoginglymostoma, or pseudoginglymostoma. Philippe Hi Philippe. It's really similar! I couldn't find a full match but you gave me the right direction. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadav Posted December 25, 2022 Author Share Posted December 25, 2022 On 12/23/2022 at 4:40 PM, digit said: Yup. I'm getting a nurse shark vibe from that as well. My experience with this type does not go back as far as the Cretaceous. Possibly @fossilsonwheels has experience with this lineage? Cheers. -Ken Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilsonwheels Posted December 25, 2022 Share Posted December 25, 2022 On 12/23/2022 at 6:40 AM, digit said: Yup. I'm getting a nurse shark vibe from that as well. My experience with this type does not go back as far as the Cretaceous. Possibly @fossilsonwheels has experience with this lineage? Cheers. -Ken Hi Ken I do have some experience with Cretaceous Orectolobiformes. It does look like a Nurse Shark and I think @Grandblanc made some good suggestions. I have seen teeth labeled Pseudoginglymostoma from the late Cretaceous of Morocco that look very similar. I’ve got a Plicatoscyllium from Morocco that I can look at as well. I don’t know much about the fauna of the formation except it’s late Cretaceous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilsonwheels Posted December 25, 2022 Share Posted December 25, 2022 Did some digging and there is a publication about the Chondrichthyes of the Mishash Formation listed on Fossilworks. The only Orectolobiformes in the publication was Ginglymostoma, no species listed. One of the authors is Henri Cappetta. I’d suggest trying to find that publication or maybe contacting Cappetta. It’s a gorgeous tooth. One of nicer Cretaceous Carpet Sharks I’ve seen. The listed genera suggest a very fascinating fauna. If you break down anymore rocks, keep an eye out. Lots of potentially interesting micro shark teeth. Squaliformes, Scyliorhinids, Triakids, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimera Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 Mishash formation is dated to the Campanian, but upper part could be Maastrichtian. In Cappetta, H. (1990). "Echinorhinidae nouveau (Neoselachii, Squaliformes) du Crétacé supérieur du Negev (Israël)." Neues Jahrbuch für Geologie und Paläontologie, Monatschefte 12: 741-749. Among the Orectolobiforms, only Chiloscyllium sp. is cited in this Formation. Very close to Pseudoginglymostoma idiri, but this species (genus too) is only known up to the Maastrichtian, and folds are missing on labial face. May be a new one ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadav Posted January 1, 2023 Author Share Posted January 1, 2023 On 12/26/2022 at 1:16 AM, fossilsonwheels said: Did some digging and there is a publication about the Chondrichthyes of the Mishash Formation listed on Fossilworks. The only Orectolobiformes in the publication was Ginglymostoma, no species listed. One of the authors is Henri Cappetta. I’d suggest trying to find that publication or maybe contacting Cappetta. It’s a gorgeous tooth. One of nicer Cretaceous Carpet Sharks I’ve seen. The listed genera suggest a very fascinating fauna. If you break down anymore rocks, keep an eye out. Lots of potentially interesting micro shark teeth. Squaliformes, Scyliorhinids, Triakids, etc. Thank you so much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilsonwheels Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 4 minutes ago, Chimera said: Mishash formation is dated to the Campanian, but upper part could be Maastrichtian. In Cappetta, H. (1990). "Echinorhinidae nouveau (Neoselachii, Squaliformes) du Crétacé supérieur du Negev (Israël)." Neues Jahrbuch für Geologie und Paläontologie, Monatschefte 12: 741-749. Among the Orectolobiforms, only Chiloscyllium sp. is cited in this Formation. Very close to Pseudoginglymostoma idiri, but this species (genus too) is only known up to the Maastrichtian, and folds are missing on labial face. May be a new one ? Interesting. The taxonomy list on fossilworks lists Ginglymostoma but doesn’t list Chiloscyllium. I haven’t read the paper, I only found the reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadav Posted January 1, 2023 Author Share Posted January 1, 2023 8 minutes ago, Chimera said: Mishash formation is dated to the Campanian, but upper part could be Maastrichtian. In Cappetta, H. (1990). "Echinorhinidae nouveau (Neoselachii, Squaliformes) du Crétacé supérieur du Negev (Israël)." Neues Jahrbuch für Geologie und Paläontologie, Monatschefte 12: 741-749. Among the Orectolobiforms, only Chiloscyllium sp. is cited in this Formation. Very close to Pseudoginglymostoma idiri, but this species (genus too) is only known up to the Maastrichtian, and folds are missing on labial face. May be a new one ? Thanks a lot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimera Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 Quote Ginglymostoma Only cited in the Gahrer Formation (Maastrichtian) if anyone wants this article I can produce a pdf file. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 I contacted the author but given the age of this article I did not expect a positive response (at least not in the short term). I think that article may provide some insight into this find and if not posted directly to this topic at least send a PM to the original poster with it attached so they can possibly enlighten themselves with some pertinent insight. Cheers. -Ken 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimera Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 Attached is the pdf file from Lewy & Cappetta, 1989 and a more recent one about the Menuha Formation. Good reading, 1626064143_LewyCappetta1989.pdf Retzler, Wilson & Avni, 2012.pdf 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadav Posted January 2, 2023 Author Share Posted January 2, 2023 21 hours ago, digit said: I contacted the author... Thanks a lot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadav Posted January 2, 2023 Author Share Posted January 2, 2023 10 hours ago, Chimera said: Attached is the pdf file from Lewy & Cappetta, 1989 and a more recent one about the Menuha Formation. Good reading, 1626064143_LewyCappetta1989.pdf 33.83 MB · 3 downloads Retzler, Wilson & Avni, 2012.pdf 783.4 kB · 3 downloads Thank you very much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFOOLEY Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 @readinghiker "I am glad I shall never be young without wild country to be young in. Of what avail are forty freedoms without a blank spot on the map?" ~Aldo Leopold (1887-1948) New Mexico Museum of Natural History Bulletins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilsonwheels Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 15 hours ago, Chimera said: Attached is the pdf file from Lewy & Cappetta, 1989 and a more recent one about the Menuha Formation. Good reading, 1626064143_LewyCappetta1989.pdf 33.83 MB · 5 downloads Retzler, Wilson & Avni, 2012.pdf 783.4 kB · 5 downloads Thanks for posting the papers ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimera Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 Science should be shared and accessible to all and especially during our turbulent times. Kind regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandblanc Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 Nadav, I've send you a message Having a look in old pictures on my computer, I find this , some Orectolobiform teeth from a middle Maastrichtian bed in phosphate mines of Morocco. Box is 35 to 55 mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadav Posted January 16, 2023 Author Share Posted January 16, 2023 59 minutes ago, Grandblanc said: Nadav, I've send you a message Having a look in old pictures on my computer, I find this , some Orectolobiform teeth from a middle Maastrichtian bed in phosphate mines of Morocco. Box is 35 to 55 mm. Wow! Thank you so much for sharing! It looks identical to mine. Do you know the specific species? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandblanc Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 On 1/16/2023 at 10:39 PM, Nadav said: Wow! Thank you so much for sharing! It looks identical to mine. Do you know the specific species? Noubhani, A. & Cappetta, H. (1997) Les Orectolobiformes, Carcharhiniformes et Myliobatiformes (Elasmobranchii, Neoselachii) des Bassins à phosphate du Maroc (Maastrichtien-Lutétien basal). Systématique, biostratigraphie, évolution et dynamique des faunes. Palaeo Ichthyologica, 8, 1–327 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassicz1 Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 On 1/16/2023 at 9:38 PM, Grandblanc said: Nadav, I've send you a message Having a look in old pictures on my computer, I find this , some Orectolobiform teeth from a middle Maastrichtian bed How did you break down the phosphate matrix to look for these teeth? I have a few matrix pieces with just common mosasaur teeth that I have bought to break down. Not sure how to do it. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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